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Hate the new Evernote


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6 hours ago, oliverthom707 said:

I have 10000 notes is my favourite... like you even look at 5% of them. I suggest if someone has 10000 notes that relies on colour coded tags you aren’t managing your information  very well.

This comment would be more useful if you indicated how EN users could more productively manage their information. If you were trying to encapsulate the current attitude of EN corporate management, however, then full marks.

2 hours ago, NorcalScott said:

Hmmm, I have about 8,000 work notes from over 10 years.  Do I look at 5% of them?  No, not really, but that is missing the point of a solution like Evernote completely.

Indeed. EN is a useful tool because it provides easy access to a database's information, its organization, and its presentation. Crippling those abilities in favor of a new facade is expecting customers to accept an inferior product. Telling customers they shouldn't be using a product as they have been using  it for years is at the core of the problems many of us have with the new v10.

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Thanks for nothing. In one swoop you have completely destroyed my workflow and 7 years worth of an information database. Many moons ago with the idiotic limitation of 250 notebooks I was forced t

You destroyed Evernote with this new version. Why don't you think twice about ***** people's lives? Everything that has changed has changed for the worse. I have been using it since 2012. The worst ve

Clugey, slow, and my colored tags are gone. Are there any alternatives that I can  transfer my Evernotes into?

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2 hours ago, Forum said:

Evernote has always been my "goto" app but now I must resort to searching for a new similar app. If anyone has a suggestion please let me know.

Thanks

Welcome, kinsman! There doesn't seem to be a drop in replacement at present, so your options are limited by what you most value in what's now branded as the Legacy version. If you are happy with a product that only works on Mac OS and iOS, for example, then DEVONthink is worth looking at. Reviewing the previous comments in this thread will provide numerous other candidates, again depending on what capabilities you most need/want and which EN capabilities you could easily live without.

I am currently testing Joplin because it appears adequate to my needs even if it falls far short for other people's circumstances. Web clipping seems to be a capability not easily replaced, so I suspect I may have to switch to a free EN account and adjust my workflow to use EN's clipper and periodically export the resulting notes to my new app. Ugh, just typing that possibility makes me sick to my stomach.

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1 hour ago, rts said:

Welcome, kinsman! There doesn't seem to be a drop in replacement at present, so your options are limited by what you most value in what's now branded as the Legacy version. If you are happy with a product that only works on Mac OS and iOS, for example, then DEVONthink is worth looking at. Reviewing the previous comments in this thread will provide numerous other candidates, again depending on what capabilities you most need/want and which EN capabilities you could easily live without.

I am currently testing Joplin because it appears adequate to my needs even if it falls far short for other people's circumstances. Web clipping seems to be a capability not easily replaced, so I suspect I may have to switch to a free EN account and adjust my workflow to use EN's clipper and periodically export the resulting notes to my new app. Ugh, just typing that possibility makes me sick to my stomach.

I think AutoHotkey can be a nice addition to any note system to do web clipping.

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Please include the previous Segoe UI size 10 font that was the default font in the version I used, and have all my notes written in, as a font in the new version 10 which instead uses a different much larger font as the default so none of my previous notes were any longer correctly formatted for the new larger size typeface.
Why reduce the available fonts down to only four, and not include the previous default font as one of them?

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I add my voice to the chorus of people who hate this new Evernote.

Years of work in local notebooks locked away. Weeks of my life spent transferring notes manually from Evernote to another app.

Words cannot express how angry I am at Evernote, nor how disappointed I am at just wasting two weeks of my life just to ensure this sort of trick isn't pulled on me again.

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Sad story, should be posted at the black board at EN HQ, titled „Think before release“.

For anybody who wants to avoid a similar experience:

1) Install legacy (Mac/PC), includes local notebooks

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052560314-Install-an-older-version-of-Evernote

2) If thinking about switching: Research before moving !

There are enough apps to choose, and many offer an automatic transfer of your notes. The devil lives in the details: If your target app does not support tags, it can’t import them, etc. So when decided, use a small sample to test it, before going all in.

3) If moving: Export notebook by notebook.

The note-notebook relation will not be kept on export, so you need one export file per notebook to keep things tidy.

And most of all: Think about patience. EN made a terrible move by throwing this v10-stuff on all of us. But the data base is intact, the legacy clients work, so what do we have to loose by leaning back a little ? They are working on improving the clients, and maybe they succeed (what success is for you depends on the individual workflows and use cases).

There is plainly no need to force-exit from EN now, just to end up investing a ton of time and effort into a half-baked, badly researched and weak alternative. There are good solutions out there, but none of them fits all. Make sure to find your size and fit before going to check out.

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2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

No - better they don’t rush this.

Personally I know what to do, if I need to. Easier when on Mac & iOS only ...

My guess is they will closely monitor the number of Legacy app users. The sooner most of those users switch over, the sooner they will dump the Legacy apps (all they have to do is stop sync'ing). But if those users are numerous and don't switch over, then EN has a problem.

I suppose they are betting they will get the bulk of Legacy users to switch as they start adding back some of the features that were lost in the switch to new EN.

For local notebook users like me, it's just a matter of time before I have to move on, because it sure seems that local notebooks is a feature that is never coming back to EN.

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25 minutes ago, tavor said:

My guess is they will closely monitor the number of Legacy app users.

A good reason not to use V10 until it is fixed, or at least better.  And yeah, local notebooks are an issue not matter what the other function that gets added back.

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5 minutes ago, CalS said:

A good reason not to use V10 until it is fixed, or at least better.  And yeah, local notebooks are an issue not matter what the other function that gets added back.

I thought greying out the icon for the legacy app was an obnoxious move. Nothing like giving a cold shoulder to users who aren't as enthralled as management is by the latest version.  🥶

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Just finished downloading the legacy version and it is a relief to be back.  The new version is unacceptable, and makes me reconsider whether I want to stick with Evernote.  From my experience and those above, feels like a Beta version at best that was rushed out. Not close to ready for prime time.  The issues below need to be fixed by the time I'm forced off of the legacy version, or I will take my business elsewhere.

Issues:

1) Most inexcusable is the deteriorated search functionality.  Fast, effective search is the key reason I chose Evernote over competitors.  Multiple expert reviews cite superior search as the key Evernote differentiator vs the competition.  The new version is horrible.  For you to hurt your product's main differentiator is careless at best.  Known folders do not show up in my search after repeat testing, and it is cluttered with results from specific notes, making it harder to get to the folders I want to jump to quickly.  The old way where folders are prioritized in the search drop-down is preferred for me, and I'm sure countless others, who use search as a quick way to jump to different folders without using the mouse.  Using the pane to the right where notes are listed (with multiple hyperlinks available at the top to quickly refine the search) is vastly superior to the new approach where this refinement functionality is completely lost.  There are often too many specific notes in the results for adding them in the main search drop-down to be of value, so sticking with the old approach where they're only shown in the pane on the right is preferred.  Please bring back these features of the old search in the next upgrade.

2) The slow speed and cludgy feel of the new software is a dealbreaker.  A key reason I picked EN over OneNote is the ability to moved at hyperspeed in the Windows version with shortcuts and other tools.  The new version kills that and eliminates this competitive advantage.  If real-time sync is the cause, add a way to disable in future versions.  I'd gladly give up real-time sync for better speed, as I imagine most would.  At least give us the option.

3) Side list view has too much space between rows.  One reason I chose EN over OneNote was the ability to see many notes stacked on top of one another easily.  The update eliminates this advantage.

4) Note title no longer autopopulates with text in the body when no note title is added.  This feature was a nice time-saver for me with many note types and should be brought back.

5) I also noticed the app on my iphone was changed for the worse with the latest upgrade.  Needing to open the app to sync files makes no sense, and it takes way too long for notes to sync once the app is opened.  In general, the speed on the app is also significantly deteriorated vs the old version.  The webclipper is also less intuitive than the older version, with multiple taps needed for steps that took one tap before.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, tavor said:

I thought greying out the icon for the legacy app was an obnoxious move. Nothing like giving a cold shoulder to users who aren't as enthralled as management is by the latest version.  🥶

I still use 6.25.1, last official release of the old stuff, which has the green icon.  No sense switching to legacy if I'm not switching to V10 at the moment.  ;)

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1 minute ago, CalS said:

I still use 6.25.1, last official release of the old stuff, which has the green icon.  No sense switching to legacy if I'm not switching to V10 at the moment.  ;)

I made the mistake of updating EN without reading the release notes. I went in assuming it was just a 'dot' update, not a major new release. So I had to install the "Legacy" version, 6.25.2.

Really wish they had a warning on the update notification! That probably would have saved them a lot of the grief that ensued when people updated and were shocked by what they saw and realized that their workflows just got nuked.

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2 minutes ago, tavor said:

I made the mistake of updating EN without reading the release notes. I went in assuming it was just a 'dot' update, not a major new release. So I had to install the "Legacy" version, 6.25.2.

Really wish they had a warning on the update notification! That probably would have saved them a lot of the grief that ensued when people updated and were shocked by what they saw and realized that their workflows just got nuked.

Yup.  You can find 6.25.1 here if you want the green icon.  :)

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1 hour ago, CalS said:

A good reason not to use V10 until it is fixed, or at least better.  And yeah, local notebooks are an issue not matter what the other function that gets added back.

Speaking of functions that will not be added back, or maybe way down the list - shortcuts? Some users of the Windows app such as you and I love our shortcuts. I wonder how that will translate in the new version that is meant to be mostly the same across platforms.

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I guess the only good update is dark mode. The rest of this update is trash. I was really expecting this tho. I think the Evernote team really needs to consider creating general options for each notebook stacks and allow users to make their decisions on what new feature they want to use. Making changes and telling people get used to it or install a previous version. These are not good solutions at all.

My biggest problem is right now that I have to change the default "view as attachment" option to "view as All Pages".

And in the previous version first slide page was automatically seen as a small image I used to look at to understand what note I'm working with. It was giving a really good clue about the note.

If you don't give us general options for notebook stacks I will have to quit using Evernote in the future. We can't spend hours fixing every note after every update.

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57 minutes ago, fred2112 said:

Here lies the issue with cloud services. I warned about it 10 years ago ...

Oh, wow. If I drill this down, there are at least 3 narratives that resonate through the centuries. You can even go back to the Greek philosophers of the old ages (probably the first pieces of literature we know about) and will find them:

1) I‘ve warned you what will happen long ago ...
(just warn often enough, and by chance you get it right from time to time, as on the day when the sails of the Persian fleet populated the horizon)

2) The youth of today ...
(which probably was said at all times, which in itself proves it is wrong. Because these young guys of today became the old hacks later, uttering the same moaning)

3) Back then, in the good old days ...
(which were not really that good, remember Windows Vista and other fails ? OK, we had White Christmas pretty often, so not so bad either)

Does this comment help with the current v10 disaster ? No, just as little as the post I am referring to. No new wisdom to be found here when digging deeper. Just old philosophers, long dead, but not forgotten.

There is a situation at hand with this v10-release, and sentimental nostalgia will not help us to solve it.

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58 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Oh, wow. If I drill this down, there are at least 3 narratives that resonate through the centuries. You can even go back to the Greek philosophers of the old ages (probably the first pieces of literature we know about) and will find them:

1) I‘ve warned you what will happen long ago ...
(just warn often enough, and by chance you get it right from time to time, as on the day when the sails of the Persian fleet populated the horizon)

2) The youth of today ...
(which probably was said at all times, which in itself proves it is wrong. Because these young guys of today became the old hacks later, uttering the same moaning)

3) Back then, in the good old days ...
(which were not really that good, remember Windows Vista and other fails ? OK, we had White Christmas pretty often, so not so bad either)

Does this comment help with the current v10 disaster ? No, just as little as the post I am referring to. No new wisdom to be found here when digging deeper. Just old philosophers, long dead, but not forgotten.

There is a situation at hand with this v10-release, and sentimental nostalgia will not help us to solve it.

I guess I don't disagree with you too much here.  Just felt like a winge. Being a big user of local notebooks it felt okay to give a bit of finger.   I will delete it though as it solves nothing. 🙂

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, MB11 said:

That blog post inspires less confidence than I had before.

And maybe I missed it but he didn't address the tortoise-like speed of the new version.

Agreed, not a lot of inspiration there - maybe an acknowledgement that they will need to support the legacy app much longer than they hoped.

As a product manager working on cross platform software products, I suspected that this whole thing is driven by cutting down the effort from supporting several platforms with several teams to several platforms with a single team.  (I've gone through this a few times)  That's much easier desired than done without a lot of turmoil, and it has been seriously mishandled here in my view.  

I'll continue to use the legacy app as long as I can, and I will give the 10x app another go at some point, but to be honest, I'm not holding out a lot of hope and I am actively looking at other platforms.  All the alternatives so far have shortcomings, but also some compelling features that may actually improve my workflows.

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1 hour ago, fred2112 said:

I guess I don't disagree with you too much here.  Just felt like a winge. Being a big user of local notebooks it felt okay to give a bit of finger.   I will delete it though as it solves nothing. 🙂

Lack of local notebooks (or E2E encrypted notebooks) are a dealbreaker for me, so I feel your pain. All cloud data eventually gets hacked, and it will happen to Evernote users.

For those who put their faith in EN to safeguard private notes, note that FireEye, a multibillion dollar market cap CYBERSECURITY company announced yesterday that they were hacked. You really think EN has better security? 

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1 hour ago, MB11 said:

That blog post inspires less confidence than I had before.

Exactly. Seems it's always the same with EN management, even as the names at the top change. We have heard similar acknowledgements before.

I've been through this song and dance long enough to know that not breaking workflows of users is a low priority for management. They are focused on delivering for their investors, who, naturally, need an exit. EN is pretty old for a private tech company.

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10 hours ago, tavor said:

Speaking of functions that will not be added back, or maybe way down the list - shortcuts? Some users of the Windows app such as you and I love our shortcuts. I wonder how that will translate in the new version that is meant to be mostly the same across platforms.

Yeah, I don’t get this one.  Shortcuts worked fine across Windows and IOS pre V10.  Haven’t been on my Mac in a while so don’t remember if they were there. 

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6 hours ago, MB11 said:

That blog post inspires less confidence than I had before.

And maybe I missed it but he didn't address the tortoise-like speed of the new version.

He does mention speed and sync issues.  Does not mention speed as related to additional clicks required to accomplish the same tasks or scanning top and bottom of screen for note meta data.  Nor any mention of what feature is not coming back, like local notebooks.  The stuff listed as added to date is mostly add backs or cosmetics.  And 98% became 90%. 🙂

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8 hours ago, NorcalScott said:

Update from the CEO of Evernote pertinent to this discussion:

https://evernote.com/blog/state-of-the-product/

He acknowledges they screwed up pushing not ready for prime time versions out.

Very good that we finally see some communication from Evernote about this. However he seems to talk more about bugs and performance issues rather than the very big decision by EN to deliberately remove functionality.

I still miss some kind of roadmap or strategic message on where the product is going medium- to long-term. Towards simplicity (and removed functionality stays off) or towards restoring previous functionality?

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After getting over the shock of actually hearing from Ian Small, Evernote once reading his response there is nothing new. Our essential missing features are still missing and in the future, if we are lucky, with no dates given so version 10 remains totally unusable, slow and annoying, nothings changed. Did you get the digs at the complaining power users, he really hates us 0.2%ers

Im sorry but I had to laugh when he referenced some as yet to be announced killer new features in the pipeline for the new year. Did you notice the lack of specifics.

We haven’t even got preferences or keyboard shortcuts to mention just two, Oh please Ian, really,!what do you take us for?

this simply isn’t good enough but I am amazed he did anything. I bet he was grinding his teeth writing that, but well done Ian, all we want now is a weekly update from you and details on these killer features that will make the pain we all feel go away. 

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Late to admit mistakes but better than nothing.

However he didn't mention when users were working hard to report bugs and provide feedbacks.

As a writer (sorry I forget who) said trust is like a China plate. When it is broken you can't go back to the state before breaking. Even you glue the pieces together.

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30 minutes ago, MrIllustrator said:

After getting over the shock of actually hearing from Ian Small, Evernote once reading his response there is nothing new. Our essential missing features are still missing and in the future, if we are lucky, with no dates given so version 10 remains totally unusable, slow and annoying, nothings changed. Did you get the digs at the complaining power users, he really hates us 0.2%ers

this simply isn’t good enough but I am amazed he did anything. I bet he was grinding his teeth writing that, but well done Ian, all we want now is a weekly update from you and details on these killer features that will make the pain we all feel go away. 

I see his reaction as an indication that the premature release has indeed hurt EN commercially (through subscription cancellation). only time will tell how bad it actually is.

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22 hours ago, Evernoter12345aaa said:

Issues:

2) The slow speed and cludgy feel of the new software is a dealbreaker.  A key reason I picked EN over OneNote is the ability to moved at hyperspeed in the Windows version with shortcuts and other tools.  The new version kills that and eliminates this competitive advantage.  If real-time sync is the cause, add a way to disable in future versions.  I'd gladly give up real-time sync for better speed, as I imagine most would.  At least give us the option.

I wonder how much of the sluggishness is related to the new common codebase. Meaning, if many or most of the underlying processes are now common across platforms, you give up some of the optimization you could otherwise have for the specific platform, whether that is Windows, Mac, iOS, or Android.

Of course if all the competitors are doing the same thing, it's not really a competitive disadvantage. 

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2 minutes ago, tavor said:

I wonder how much of the sluggishness is related to the new common codebase. Meaning, if many or most of the underlying processes are now common across platforms, you give up some of the optimization you could otherwise have for the specific platform, whether that is Windows, Mac, iOS, or Android.

Of course if all the competitors are doing the same thing, it's not really a competitive disadvantage. 

I think it is more the development engine that is being used (Electron) and the fact that even on a desktop most of the processing is occurring on the servers.  It can be tuned up some but not likely it will be as snappy as a stand alone app on a desktop.  Laws of physics get in the way.  Any server based process will be slower than a local one.  Anyone using On Demand Sync on Windows would see that.  It's just can the lags be shrunk to the point that they aren't a nuisance.  :(

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I'm an Evernote for macOS user since 2009 and I've never even logged into the forums before but I just updated to v10 and I'm in such disbelief about some of the workflow and interface changes that I figured I must be missing something. 

Please bring back the ability to set some app preferences!

I also make a lot of check lists and I'm shocked to see how many clicks it takes to create a list, indent items and set dividers.

I have to toggle between 3 different dropdown menus to do the above with no obvious keyboard shortcuts and I also don't see an obvious way to add the checkbox button back to the toolbar? 

I'm still digging around but I just wanted to share my initial impressions, as a long-time subscriber, about the poor impression I'm getting of this upgrade, for whatever that's worth – It's not just that people dislike change, it's that these changes are disruptive. 

Hopefully v10 improves quickly and gains back much of what was stripped away. In the meantime I'm hoping I am able to downgrade, which is something I have never needed to do once in the past 10 years. 

The hits just keep on coming in 2020, I guess... 

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19 hours ago, NorcalScott said:

Update from the CEO of Evernote pertinent to this discussion:

https://evernote.com/blog/state-of-the-product/

He acknowledges they screwed up pushing not ready for prime time versions out.

Thanks for this NorcalScott. Great that EN acknowledges their massively incompetent communication and roll out "plan". However the CEO states "...the releases have not gone as smoothly as any of us would have liked. Despite an extensive QA process and a long-running beta program, some of our customers have encountered frustrating bugs and performance issues.". I was a Software Quality Assurance and Testing manager at a major global company - and I find this statement "extensive QA process..." highly suspect - I found at least 25 "simple and basic" issues when I first launched the new iOS version of the app (for example, could not add a space between two images that were imported at the same time (minor), and duplicate (conflict) notes constantly being generated (major)).

So while they may have done a long beta program, my questions are:

  • What level of user were their Beta Testers (how many longer term high use users that "stretched" the app beyond simple functionality) from which they documented their user functionality testing use cases?
  • How many of the reported KNOWN ISSUES during beta testing were actually addressed before releasing the new V10 code base?
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It's absolutely awful. The new app is slow and it has lost new notes now on a couple of occasions. 

The slowness is across my Mac as well as iOS devices. 

So.. I've removed my credit card details from my Evernote Premium subscription and will not be renewing - I'll be moving everything to Apple Notes.

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16 hours ago, CalS said:

He does mention speed and sync issues.  Does not mention speed as related to additional clicks required to accomplish the same tasks or scanning top and bottom of screen for note meta data.  Nor any mention of what feature is not coming back, like local notebooks.  The stuff listed as added to date is mostly add backs or cosmetics.  And 98% became 90%. 🙂

YES. That shifting of the goalpost from 95-97% to 90% stuck out to me too.

And I fully agree with you, beyond the feature loss is the crippled UX that's frankly so worse to me at least than the missing features. Every additional click, every thing being noticeably slower than it used to be... 

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I absolutely hate this new Mac version. Click on a note - blank. Assign a tag, then view the notes in that tag - blank. Try editing some notes - "View Only" cannot edit. Nothing in the GUI is where it was once before. Shortcuts - forget about the ones you've used for years. Also the iOS version. I was at a very important meeting and opened the new iOS version on my iPhone to get some critical info for the meeting and whoa! WTF is this?? Took me 10 minutes just to figure out what the hell was going on. Very embarrassing to say the least.

Incredibly disappointing after using this app for my business for over 10 years.

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On 12/8/2020 at 10:02 PM, luvmyc6 said:

Oh yes, I remember those feeble and pathetic attempts by MS! To this day, some people at my company (esp the MS defenders) never understood that LN was more than just a "Mail" application.

LN was great in early Exchange/Outlook days, BEFORE Microsoft created Sharepoint. Then it lost the competitive edge. I used every single office product since Word 2.0. I used Lotus Notes between 2000 and 2003. There was a reason why LN was replaced by Exchange.

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23 hours ago, CalS said:

I think it is more the development engine that is being used (Electron) and the fact that even on a desktop most of the processing is occurring on the servers.  It can be tuned up some but not likely it will be as snappy as a stand alone app on a desktop.  Laws of physics get in the way.  Any server based process will be slower than a local one.  Anyone using On Demand Sync on Windows would see that.  It's just can the lags be shrunk to the point that they aren't a nuisance.  :(

You cannot blame Electron framework for Evernote v10 being extremely slow. There are note taking apps written in Electron that are EXTREMELY FAST (for example Recollector - https://recollectr.io/) or very fast (see Joplin - https://joplinapp.org). I used both while searching for Evernote alternative.

Currently ALL alternative solutions I tried are FASTER than Evernote v10 during my usage scenarios.

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57 minutes ago, Piotas said:

You cannot blame Electron framework for Evernote v10 being extremely slow. There are note taking apps written in Electron that are EXTREMELY FAST (for example Recollector - https://recollectr.io/) or very fast (see Joplin - https://joplinapp.org). I used both while searching for Evernote alternative.

Currently ALL alternative solutions I tried are FASTER than Evernote v10 during my usage scenarios.

That's exellent news, this proves that the performance issues can be fixed 🙂

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13 minutes ago, eric99 said:

That's exellent news, this proves that the performance issues can be fixed 🙂

Yeah, as I said in the first post the closer EN can make it to the old desktops the better.  Whatever the tipping point is for pauses that cause a loss of focus on the task at hand.  

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2 hours ago, Piotas said:

You cannot blame Electron framework for Evernote v10 being extremely slow. There are note taking apps written in Electron that are EXTREMELY FAST (for example Recollector - https://recollectr.io/) or very fast (see Joplin - https://joplinapp.org). I used both while searching for Evernote alternative.

Currently ALL alternative solutions I tried are FASTER than Evernote v10 during my usage scenarios.

Agreed about Joplin - I am trying it out and both desktop (Windows) and mobile apps (iPad and Android) are very fast.  Searching is amazingly fast.  Downside with Joplin is no good way to create notes from emails, but I think I can get around that.  It should be embarrassing to Evernote that an open source app is so much better performing than their app, even with encryption enabled (which is a major perk of Joplin by the way).

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19 minutes ago, NorcalScott said:

Agreed about Joplin - I am trying it out and both desktop (Windows) and mobile apps (iPad and Android) are very fast.  Searching is amazingly fast.  Downside with Joplin is no good way to create notes from emails, but I think I can get around that.  It should be embarrassing to Evernote that an open source app is so much better performing than their app, even with encryption enabled (which is a major perk of Joplin by the way).

For even more security, there is Standard Notes, also open source - big security difference is Standard Notes keeps data encrypted even on your device, while Joplin only encrypts data in transit and in storage on servers (and as you note, even that is more than EN does). Also has extensions (similar concept to Chrome extensions) which allows people to build on additional functionality, which is a great concept as it allows for crowdsourcing of additional functionality instead of waiting on the core devs to agree to add a particular feature and then get around to developing it. Even has a spreadsheet extension. I'll have to give this a try.

I haven't looked around at other note apps in years (back then, the only viable alternative was OneNote, everything else was more or less at the Google Keep level), and it's amazing how many have sprung up in recent years. To the point where we have viable open source alternatives, to say nothing of proprietary alternatives. 

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On 12/11/2020 at 9:10 PM, luvmyc6 said:

 I was a Software Quality Assurance and Testing manager at a major global company - and I find this statement "extensive QA process..." highly suspect - I found at least 25 "simple and basic" issues when I first launched the new iOS version of the app (for example, could not add a space between two images that were imported at the same time (minor), and duplicate (conflict) notes constantly being generated (major)).

So while they may have done a long beta program, my questions are:

  • What level of user were their Beta Testers (how many longer term high use users that "stretched" the app beyond simple functionality) from which they documented their user functionality testing use cases?
  • How many of the reported KNOWN ISSUES during beta testing were actually addressed before releasing the new V10 code base?

I have pretty similar background like you. I was responsible as a manager to assure high quality software delivery (A-SPICE L2) for one of major players in the automotive sector.

1. Yeah, my reaction for "extensive QA process" was just laughing loud! 😉 Current state of new app doesn't give us evidences that they even perform minimum QA...

2. You can review old preview/beta forums here - they are still available in read-only mode.

In the first half of the 2020 many preview/beta users tried to convey the message to EvN that new software wasn't ready even for beta stage and testing phase should took at least twice as long or even more. Unfortunately, such voices were ignored - probably due to some high level managerial decisions.

By the way: no "testing use cases" were available during public preview/beta. Whole process just looked as an exact opposite to the best practices proposed for example by ATDD/TDD or ISO like 15504 or 12207 or 15288, etc. Dev team simply provided new test releases as is - without proper release notes... There were no test scenarios, no detailed infos what were modified or added...

Moreover, EvN definitions of "preview" or "beta" were against well established concepts like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Stages_of_development

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18 hours ago, tavor said:

For even more security, there is Standard Notes, also open source

I just installed Standard Notes on Android, but it seems to be very restricted. I'm I missing something? For instance; is it possible to add pictures, is there a camera option?

And if my notes (and index?) are encrypted at the client side as well, how does the search work?

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On 12/5/2020 at 7:02 PM, LynuSBell said:

I didn't think about that... and I have quite a few things I wouldn't like to lose...
Maybe Joplin or something Open source and similar would be best, despite losing on quite nice features.

I just tried to import my 3229 notes into Joplin... it unexpectedly  stopped after 60 notes already.

The imported notes look great. What bothers me most is that all my human readable resource filenames are renamed to a cryptic ID.  This is a stopper for me: my filenames are self explaining and allow me to search for my raw data, without the encapsulating notes. In contrast, the evernote HTML Export keeps these filenames intact.

Edit: the original filename is still in the note as visible notelinks, which makes it potentially possible to rename cryptic filenames back to their original name (by some kind of  export tool)

Overall, I like the Joplin approach and I'll keep an eye on it in case EN  would stop https://github.com/sponsors/laurent22/

 

 

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3 hours ago, eric99 said:

I just installed Standard Notes on Android, but it seems to be very restricted. I'm I missing something? For instance; is it possible to add pictures, is there a camera option?

And if my notes (and index?) are encrypted at the client side as well, how does the search work?

I don't know, as I haven't installed Standard Notes yet, though I do intend to give this a test drive, as well as Joplin.

Couple of places you can ask:

https://github.com/standardnotes/forum/issues/

https://www.reddit.com/r/StandardNotes/

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On 10/27/2020 at 3:19 PM, lgpiper said:

Then too, EN's choice to limit fonts to only three or four really ugly ones makes no sense. 

Evernote wants consistency over the different platforms. For this reason only certain fonts can be offered. It makes no sense to offer fonts which are only legally allowed to be used on Windows, for example. What should be displayed on Android or on the Web version?

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On 12/12/2020 at 6:32 PM, Piotas said:

You cannot blame Electron framework for Evernote v10 being extremely slow. There are note taking apps written in Electron that are EXTREMELY FAST (for example Recollector - https://recollectr.io/) or very fast (see Joplin - https://joplinapp.org). I used both while searching for Evernote alternative.

Currently ALL alternative solutions I tried are FASTER than Evernote v10 during my usage scenarios.

The new Evernote v10 for Android is faster than the old version. The web client is also plenty fast. What platform are you using ?

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On 12/11/2020 at 9:48 PM, Shad0wca7 said:

It's absolutely awful. The new app is slow and it has lost new notes now on a couple of occasions. 

The slowness is across my Mac as well as iOS devices. 

So.. I've removed my credit card details from my Evernote Premium subscription and will not be renewing - I'll be moving everything to Apple Notes.

You could use the legacy app until v10 has matured. 

I've been using v10 on the web for the last year (it used to be called v6). It has improved enormously quickly.

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On 12/11/2020 at 6:58 PM, CalS said:

I think it is more the development engine that is being used (Electron) and the fact that even on a desktop most of the processing is occurring on the servers.  It can be tuned up some but not likely it will be as snappy as a stand alone app on a desktop.  Laws of physics get in the way.  Any server based process will be slower than a local one.  Anyone using On Demand Sync on Windows would see that.  It's just can the lags be shrunk to the point that they aren't a nuisance.  :(

Google Stadia has unnoticeable lag when playing games in 4k. Running stuff on a remote server, particularly now that evernote is hosted on google cloud, shouldn't mean a large performance hit.

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On 12/11/2020 at 6:50 PM, tavor said:

I wonder how much of the sluggishness is related to the new common codebase. Meaning, if many or most of the underlying processes are now common across platforms, you give up some of the optimization you could otherwise have for the specific platform, whether that is Windows, Mac, iOS, or Android.

Of course if all the competitors are doing the same thing, it's not really a competitive disadvantage. 

It's a pity flutter wasn't quite ready for Evernote 2 years ago when they started developing the new version. Of course, there's no way around compiling to js for web versions, but iOS/Windows/Linux/Android versions could use compiled binaries.

As it is, every competitor is using one codebase for all platforms nowadays. Evernote just does a whole lot more than the competitors. Examples being real-time search and running a text recognition software over images. These things take real computational power and well-optimised workflows. To the best of my knowledge, no competitor gets close in these areas.

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4 minutes ago, ehrt74 said:

Google Stadia has unnoticeable lag when playing games in 4k. Running stuff on a remote server, particularly now that evernote is hosted on google cloud, shouldn't mean a large performance hit.

Yup.  Any native app with a local data base will have an advantage of no internet lag.  The key is to minimize that lag when server access is required.  EN isn't there yet on the V10 desktop apps.

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I upgraded to version 10.4.4. recently...it was unworkable, destroyed any ability to use the program. I felt all my work was locked in and unusable. I used to be able t send a support ticket, now i can't find a way to do it. I reverted to version 6 and this works fine, but I am now concerned that Evernote is not taking care of premium users and I am also concerned that for some reason this has been done deliberately. Why is there no comment from Evernote about what they have done?

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22 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

The new Evernote v10 for Android is faster than the old version. The web client is also plenty fast. What platform are you using ?

Depends your usage scenario. On my LG G6 Evernote v10 (beta) last week was STARTING in 25-28s.

Yes, half a minute waiting to start taking your notes.

My Evernote account currently has about 4k notes in 20 folders and about 400 tags.

On my OnePlus Nord Evernote v10 (non-beta) starts much faster (less than 10s), but this phone has as much RAM as my old PC (12GB), but still it 2-3x longer than Joplin with more (5,5k) notes.

Main issue with Evernote v10 PC app that EVERY operation takes noticably more time. Openin a note. Tagging a note. Moving a note to a folder. All takes a 1-4 seconds. Multiply up to x50 for multiple notes (because v10 has 50 notes selection limit and there is performance reason).

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20 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

Evernote just does a whole lot more than the competitors. Examples being real-time search and running a text recognition software over images. These things take real computational power and well-optimised workflows. To the best of my knowledge, no competitor gets close in these areas.

You are still taking about features of Evernote v6. All features you've mentioned are present and works much better in "legacy" Evernote.

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I love Evernote, and it's an important tool in my routine.

That's why it was so frustrating to see this new version. Looks like a beta version that was poorly tested and put into production. I don't expect that from Evernote and I won't renew my subscription if they don't fix everything soon.

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The new Evernote is *****. I enjoyed this app for so many years. The only solution I got from Evernote Support guys is the Legacy version. It's good for now but I am afraid it's not going to be support for good. I'm frustrated but I will find an alternative solution and start moving on all the people I have convinced to use Evernote.

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4 hours ago, Piotas said:

You are still taking about features of Evernote v6. All features you've mentioned are present and works much better in "legacy" Evernote.

Real-time search was added recently and rolled out in evernote v10, i think.

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16 minutes ago, ehrt74 said:

Real-time search was added recently and rolled out in evernote v10, i think.

Real time search actually went away with V10.  Now there may be up to a 3 minute lag before updates are indexed.  Part of the design according to previous posts.  Legacy is still real time.

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1 minute ago, CalS said:

Real time search actually went away with V10.  Now there may be up to a 3 minute lag before updates are indexed.  Part of the design according to previous posts.  Legacy is still real time.

Maybe i've got the wrong name. The list of suggestions when you enter a search term is updated as you type. I find this to be really useful.

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7 minutes ago, ehrt74 said:

Maybe i've got the wrong name. The list of suggestions when you enter a search term is updated as you type. I find this to be really useful.

That's more of an aided search process.  

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I made a separate post for this, but here's a comparison of performance in v6 and v10: 

Edit: it was pointed out that this isn't fair because it includes the startup time of EN10. But I always have to quit it after every use, because it takes over some keyboard shortcuts that I need in other apps. So this is an accurate representation of the time it takes me to extract information from it.

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Thank you for the video, perfect example of what all EV 10 users are experiencing. A graphic indication indeed of why EN 10 is not fit for public consumption. Just as I have said before, don’t the people at Evernote use their own product, just look at this rubbish you have released!

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I have waited a few weeks and bottom line two issues:

 

1. The UI is so f**** slow and I hate that. I try to minimize the tasks I complete with EN.

2. I am missing tons of features I was used to. There is no reason to take away these features.

 

Overall: I am still extremely pissed and it won't stop. I will find an alternative one day and I will recommend everyone I know who is looking for a note app not to use Evernote. 

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31 minutes ago, MrIllustrator said:

Thank you for the video, perfect example of what all EV 10 users are experiencing. A graphic indication indeed of why EN 10 is not fit for public consumption. Just as I have said before, don’t the people at Evernote use their own product, just look at this rubbish you have released!

I have suspected for years (based on longstanding pattern of general releases of product with glaring bugs), and said as much on this forum, that no one in senior management is a power user of Evernote.

That video and similar complaints in many posts have me reassessing - it may be that no one in senior management is even a daily user of Evernote! 

The one thing they did correctly with this release is continuing to sync the legacy Mac and Windows versions - which really does highlight that the v10 general release is actually a beta testing scheme. Imagine if they dropped sync on the legacy desktop apps! It would be notemageddon!

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This is weird. On my Android device from clicking on the evernote icon to being able to create a note takes about 3 seconds.

Also I tested how long it takes for Evernote to index new notes so they are searchable. This takes less than 10 seconds on my Chromebook.

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2 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

This is weird. On my Android device from clicking on the evernote icon to being able to create a note takes about 3 seconds.

Also I tested how long it takes for Evernote to index new notes so they are searchable. This takes less than 10 seconds on my Chromebook.

It is 5 sec on my iPhone.

Could still be faster: Long press on the app icon should call an action menu with a „New Note“ option. And the Watch App is missing.

AFAIK they are working on it.

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2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

It is 5 sec on my iPhone.

Could still be faster: Long press on the app icon should call an action menu with a „New Note“ option. And the Watch App is missing.

AFAIK they are working on it.

Yep. there's lots of long-press actions which would be great, within the app too. Hopefully they'll come soon.

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+1 - what was the UX team thinking - this new version is no bueno.  at least there is a onenote importer to load the enex file.  I've been using evernote for many years and it worked great, it was simple and easy and I could count on it.  

 

Now I am luck if I can create a note on macos evernote and actually be able to type the note without rebooting or restarting evernote or using my mobile. UGH.this sucks.  blasphemy

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Like others I'm very concerned with the investment I've made in creating thousands of notes in Evernote.  I can't understand why they would take away so much functionality in the new version.  Makes me wonder if Evernote as a company is in decline and acting rashly.  Actively looking for an alternative.

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16 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

This is weird. On my Android device from clicking on the evernote icon to being able to create a note takes about 3 seconds.

Also I tested how long it takes for Evernote to index new notes so they are searchable. This takes less than 10 seconds on my Chromebook.

When it is already running on Android phone, it wakes up within 3s as well. But after rebooting your phone or NOT using evernote for few hours, it starts in 12s on One+Nord (AC2003) with 12gigs of RAM and this year's new Qualcom 765G (8-core) - see attached video. Last time I used evernote on this device yesterday.

I just deleted screengrab I did because it contains senstivie data, but I measured - 10s to warm start. 14s to be able to enter note or search. 3x longer than joplin with similar number of notes (ported from Evernote!).

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3 hours ago, PRM-EN said:

Like others I'm very concerned with the investment I've made in creating thousands of notes in Evernote.  I can't understand why they would take away so much functionality in the new version.  Makes me wonder if Evernote as a company is in decline and acting rashly.  Actively looking for an alternative.

let me comment on some advertising I got last month from Evernote

image.thumb.png.1a1d6715415fcf3a01a3c0dffebca1f3.png

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15 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

It is 5 sec on my iPhone.

Could still be faster: Long press on the app icon should call an action menu with a „New Note“ option. And the Watch App is missing.

AFAIK they are working on it.

It took 25 seconds on my iPhone to get to all notes.  It is faster if I close EN and reopen after this initial load.  So it must be doing something with notes created/updated since last access.  I only have 10 notes that are offline.  On my iPad it takes about 5 seconds, the notes panel appears with a circling icon as the note header stuff and whatever other changes since last access are synced.

Murphy's Law, but it seems every time I go to add a quick note on the iPhone, typically a to do, I wait interminably to get access to the add note button.  Really not usable.  I've started emailing the to do to EN, a no lag process other than entering the a couple of characters of the email address.  Crazy silly.  

Once they are both "up" rendering times seem to be about the same, slight edge to old EN.

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Dear Mr. Ian Samll,

I would like to say thank you to Evernote, and Mr. Stephan Pachikov.   Evernote saved my works and company in 2020.

I am running a small family business in Hong Kong and our factory in China since 1994.  And I started using evernote since 2008.  The mainly function of Evernote for me is mainly a "Document Storage System".  In my memory, terms of "clouds" was not popular at that time.  But EN was the first one giving me this mobility when I running between Hong Kong and China.  EN let me no longer traveling with my heavy notebook.

In the meantime, I tried Chinese version EN (YinXiang) and EN Team.  But for the reasons of xxxxxxx, I only keep my paid international version after all.

The mostly loved of Evernote was, the sacnsanp.  Hahah! many people start laughing at me now.  But for me, using EN as a document storage, I need to scan, upload, save tens of documents in Evernotes everyday, including office records, technical documents, points founding, communication records, todo, planning, excels, words, etc.  It really work very good to one press scan to EN (at least at that time).  And I can get all my records everywhere, in China factory, Hong Kong or even on the way traveling and meeting with customers.  And clipping everything what I saw by computers, phone, pad when I am working, traveling, or even on bed.

In 2020, I am pinned in Hong Kong because of family need and cannot stay in China without coming back (for 14 days quarantine in each location is needed, and costs of quarantine).  Actually, the border "blocking" came much faster than imagined.  And luckily all my working materials are on Evernote.  It keeps my working at least 80% same as before. (Of course, factory running depends on my helpful colleagues in China and others "clouds").

I recommending Evernote to many friends and telling them my experiences when they asking me how to running my businesses in this situation.  And telling them how importance of "clouds", which Evernote giving me this concept. In my memory, earlier  than google documents, and not workin in China.

Here I want you to know, how Evernote is important to me, and why I am in love with Evernote.  But, why a couple would become "HATE" each others and divorced?  It is what my feeling now after yelling for 3 months, posted many posts of complaining.

Please kindly solve the problems, not the 0/1 in programming. And face, meet, talk, reply to your loyalty users directly., I am one of them but not only one, and much much many more here and there all over the world.  Please tell Mr. Shane D. stop using the Chinese style reply here, it is not helping you.  I am a manager too, even as small as an ant in front of the Elephant.  Knowing and satisfying customers' need is the only way of business. 

 

Steven Tang

From Hong Kong

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6 hours ago, Piotas said:

When it is already running on Android phone, it wakes up within 3s as well. But after rebooting your phone or NOT using evernote for few hours, it starts in 12s on One+Nord (AC2003) with 12gigs of RAM and this year's new Qualcom 765G (8-core) - see attached video. Last time I used evernote on this device yesterday.

I just deleted screengrab I did because it contains senstivie data, but I measured - 10s to warm start. 14s to be able to enter note or search. 3x longer than joplin with similar number of notes (ported from Evernote!).

When I pin the app to not shut in the background it opens instantly when i click on it. I wonder what's different between my phone and yours? I'm using a Samsung S20 with Android 11.

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On 12/12/2020 at 6:14 PM, Kolmir said:

...

In the first half of the 2020 many preview/beta users tried to convey the message to EvN that new software wasn't ready even for beta stage and testing phase should took at least twice as long or even more. Unfortunately, such voices were ignored - probably due to some high level managerial decisions.

By the way: no "testing use cases" were available during public preview/beta. Whole process just looked as an exact opposite to the best practices proposed for example by ATDD/TDD or ISO like 15504 or 12207 or 15288, etc. Dev team simply provided new test releases as is - without proper release notes... There were no test scenarios, no detailed infos what were modified or added...

So sad to see that beta testing results and feedback were completely ignored by EN upper management. And, wow, to hear that EN, as a software company, has no proper procedures and communication for beta testing when there are easily accessible documented standards they could (should) be following. Their total lack of a true QA and Testing process is truly appalling, especially when the CEO tries to imply they have one.

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On 12/9/2020 at 7:55 PM, rts said:

Welcome, kinsman! There doesn't seem to be a drop in replacement at present, so your options are limited by what you most value in what's now branded as the Legacy version. If you are happy with a product that only works on Mac OS and iOS, for example, then DEVONthink is worth looking at. Reviewing the previous comments in this thread will provide numerous other candidates, again depending on what capabilities you most need/want and which EN capabilities you could easily live without.

I am currently testing Joplin because it appears adequate to my needs even if it falls far short for other people's circumstances. Web clipping seems to be a capability not easily replaced, so I suspect I may have to switch to a free EN account and adjust my workflow to use EN's clipper and periodically export the resulting notes to my new app. Ugh, just typing that possibility makes me sick to my stomach.

If you dislike the V10 GUI, then Joplin is no alternative because it has almost exactly the same layout and it has no wysiwyg editor like EN. Joplin also renames all your resource files (pdf, images) to a cryptic ID, even in the exported folders.  For me, this is a stopper because my files have meaningful names which may be searched independently.

That being said, Joplin has a lot of potential. If the developer would be able (financially) to work full time  at this product, it would be very soon at the level of EN V6 or better. The most interesting feature is of course the E2E encryption.

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The new evernote version is an absolute disaster. After years with no additional, meaningful features (highlighting, etc.), and - in my opinion - ignoring their users (im a premium user since 2012), .. Evernote is forcing customers like my to look after an alternative tool 😞

 

The new version:

- has no important, meaningful new feature for me (priorizing notes with drag and drop, highlighting, any kind of kanban like organization possibility, etc.)

- instead of that, .. the new version is:

- completely buggy (in all versions: IOS, MacOS, etc.)

- extremely slow (in all versions: IOS, MacOS, etc.)

- confusing

- and do not fulfill modern requirements (fast, stable, configurable, easy to use, feature rich, graphical GUIs, etc.)

 

Can anybody suggest me an alternative. Now, the evernote team has have got made it, that I am completely frustrated and willing to change the tool 😞

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I hate the new evernote also, .. and it destroyed my hope, that the evernote team is able to release a stable and fast version of evernote, .. with new, meaningful features, .. we are waiting since years (highlighting, drag-and-drop prioritization of notes, kanban support, etc.)

 

Can anyone suggest an alternative tool???

Thanks!

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6 hours ago, ehrt74 said:

When I pin the app to not shut in the background it opens instantly when i click on it. I wonder what's different between my phone and yours? I'm using a Samsung S20 with Android 11.

If I pin an app to run in background, it will stay. I am referring to standard app behavior of vanilla Android 10 of ColorOS. I see no reason to force run resource hog to run in the background.

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2 hours ago, Markus (Graz) said:

Can anyone suggest an alternative tool???

For EN-replacement with local storage: Joplin

For EN-replacement with more functionality: Nimbus

For working with flexible documents & databases: Notion

There are plenty more, for example Obsidian. However, none of the options can match all of EN legacy functionality.

Check out noteapps.info for comparisons of some alternatives.

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4 hours ago, eric99 said:

If you dislike the V10 GUI, then Joplin is no alternative because it has almost exactly the same layout and it has no wysiwyg editor like EN. Joplin also renames all your resource files (pdf, images) to a cryptic ID, even in the exported folders.  For me, this is a stopper because my files have meaningful names which may be searched independently.

That being said, Joplin has a lot of potential. If the developer would be able (financially) to work full time  at this product, it would be very soon at the level of EN V6 or better. The most interesting feature is of course the E2E encryption.

Joplin does allow you to use your preferred editor, so you can use something like Typora, which has features that far exceed Evernote's editor (outlines, formulas, diagrams). I imagine there's no issue using a WYSIWYG editor if you prefer that over a markdown editor.

Agreed that renaming your attachments is not desireable.

I find it amazing that an open source project on a shoestring budget that is largely driven by one man has been able to create a note app that is within reach of EN and its hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars in funding, and several hundreds of employees. It really does make you wonder about EN's deployment of its resources (remember Evernote socks and coffee mugs?).

I agree that if the Joplin dev devotes more time, he could soon catch EN Legacy (which means surpassing current v10). Another thing he has going for him is the plugin architecture which allows people to add functionality to Joplin without having to wait for the main Joplin dev to get around to it.

1 hour ago, Gnopps said:

For EN-replacement with local storage: Joplin

For EN-replacement with more functionality: Nimbus

For working with flexible documents & databases: Notion

There are plenty more, for example Obsidian. However, none of the options can match all of EN legacy functionality.

Check out noteapps.info for comparisons of some alternatives.

One place where Nimbus falls short is opening/editing multiple notes simultaneously. I believe that is not possible in the Windows app, though may be possible in browser version.

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Seems you already had a look at Notion 😉
But save your time: After some days of playing around most of the people who are looking for a reliable data management tool came or will come back to here... Stay with Legacy and enjoy every new EN-10x version that comes up in short cycles.

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I am INCREDIBLY disappointed with the "NEW EVERNOTE".   It is VERY slow, clunky, poorly organized, and an embarrassment.  How could this have been released by a company that actually has a committed group of paying customers?     I don't know about the rest of you, but if the Legacy version is not restored as the standard version, I will be looking for a new note organization system.   What a catastrophic failure of software engineering.

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3 hours ago, tavor said:

Joplin does allow you to use your preferred editor, so you can use something like Typora, which has features that far exceed Evernote's editor (outlines, formulas, diagrams). I imagine there's no issue using a WYSIWYG editor if you prefer that over a markdown editor.

Agreed that renaming your attachments is not desireable.

I find it amazing that an open source project on a shoestring budget that is largely driven by one man has been able to create a note app that is within reach of EN and its hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars in funding, and several hundreds of employees. It really does make you wonder about EN's deployment of its resources (remember Evernote socks and coffee mugs?).

I agree that if the Joplin dev devotes more time, he could soon catch EN Legacy (which means surpassing current v10). Another thing he has going for him is the plugin architecture which allows people to add functionality to Joplin without having to wait for the main Joplin dev to get around to it.

One place where Nimbus falls short is opening/editing multiple notes simultaneously. I believe that is not possible in the Windows app, though may be possible in browser version.

I really don't know Joplin but does it run an OCR over images to make then searchable or offer real-time search indexed search results of 1000s of notes? How about adding notes to pdfs or images? Does it have a grammar allowing you to issue specific queries over http? 

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@Markus (Graz) as you seem to be living in the apple universe and contrary to AlbertRs comment I have recently migrated to Devonthink because of the mess EN has created with V10 and most say it both outperforms EN and is far more feature rich for my use cases...my only regret is not having migrated sooner...

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  • Kade changed the title to To Evernote: Never Release a Product That Is Not Complete.

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