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RavBoy

Will Evernote for Windows New Version 10 Succeed? is this the Beginning of the End? and When?

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Well after all these years of using Evernote, I do see one significant concern for me is the loss of local notebooks.....

With over 100,000 notes, I maintain around 30,000 in local notebooks.   These local notebooks are mostly confidential and financial related. 

This appears to be a major deal breaker for me using Evernote.  It will be a major project for me to move off Evernote.

I will monitor this forum for any updates and alternatives.

What features are no longer supported in the new app?

This is not an exhaustive list of features, but the most notable include:

  • Local notebooks
  • Presentation mode
  • Context
  • ScanSnap Evernote Edition firmware and software
  • Outlook clipper
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16 hours ago, RavBoy said:

I mostly want to know, and get assurance, that there are plans and actions being taken to make v10 awesome, as intended, and by when???  And roughly how long do v6.25 users have before EN turns it off/stops supporting it???

Two very solid, good points. I would like to inquire about these as well.

V10 looks good but I don't think it is a solution for a power user. It won't be too long before heavy users will start looking for alternates as a back up plan. I started that process for the first time and I must say Nimbus looks like everything I want Evernote to be. So it can be done!

I am sure there will be features added to V10 but I am hoping that the speed of the app will drastically improve before then. The core idea behind Evernote is you can dump everything and retrieve quickly in a systematic way. If I am waiting for it to think, load, refresh, it is going to get very frustrating to search among 30K notes.

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Some years back my membership to Anytime Fitness, a 24/7 accessible Gym chain here in Australia, wanted to charge me $75 to replace a FOB key I'd lost!  $75... for something that probably cost them a couple of dollars.  I was super annoyed, which super motivated me to convert half my double lock-up garage to a professional home gym setup...and it's awesome. I now save a lot of travel time and money on fuel/membership costs etc, plus benefits of the whole family also working out with me in the morning... BIG wins.

I'm getting that same motivated feeling again now.  I posted this thread in the EN Win V10 Issues forum, as it does squarely question the current issues and future direction of V10, and no EN staff member, let alone @Ian Small will acknowledge or respond to it!  instead they chose to relegate this thread to a feature request! Very Poor. Where's the feature request? Just bury it in the sand... nice one guys!  Even seasoned users and gurus on this forum are recommending to not upgrade to v10 due to issues.  But yet Ian Small chooses to remain silent.

Enter Nimbus.  I only spent 30 minutes setting up an account just now, and doing some Imports from EN, and my first reaction was wow, and how come I didn't know about this sooner.  Beautiful dark mode, more real estate space for Note editor, more polished, more features, many levels deep nested sub folders, and who knows what else I will find.  I will do more exploration and do a comparison between it and EN V10 on my wife's computer and see where my subscription money will end up going, but right now my first impressions is that it could be Nimbus here we come. 

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17 hours ago, daker said:

Well after all these years of using Evernote, I do see one significant concern for me is the loss of local notebooks.....

With over 100,000 notes, I maintain around 30,000 in local notebooks.   These local notebooks are mostly confidential and financial related. 

This appears to be a major deal breaker for me using Evernote.  It will be a major project for me to move off Evernote.

I will monitor this forum for any updates and alternatives.

What features are no longer supported in the new app?

This is not an exhaustive list of features, but the most notable include:

  • Local notebooks
  • Presentation mode
  • Context
  • ScanSnap Evernote Edition firmware and software
  • Outlook clipper

fully concur - not having local notebooks or zero knowledge encrypted notebooks (with 3rd party verification of the encryption) as a substitute is a show stopper for me.

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13 minutes ago, mi_cha said:

Well, this is a narrow conception of EN as a cross-platform cloud-based note editor - quite a commodity these days. Does the dev team share this opinion?

A considerable amount of users (you may adjectivate them as you want) have been subscribing to the premium service for many years and using Evernote as a power PRODUCTIVITY TOOL. In this perspective, EN (up to v. 6.x) is matchless.

That's why the new EN 10 - with so many long-established core features missing, slow navigation, and so on - delivers such a poor performance in the eyes of a relevant group of customers.

I could not have expressed this better myself. I'm a 10 year power user with about 20k notes and it saddens me to say I'm teetering on the edge of saying "eff it" and moving on.  It's very likely I'll be going back to 6.25 soon. But I'm kind of looking to see what kind of response EN is going to make toward their elite (if you will) users while still ferreting out all the changes. I need to assess how much of what's "missing" is just relocated and do I want to invest the time in relearning those locations.

Clearly this first minimum viable product or MVP (if it is indeed that) is lacking from our viewpoint so much that we're considering which new ship to jump toward.

What EN needs to do is immediately get some solid communication out which is addressed specifically to users like us. I don't know how many of their customer base is "power", etc. but I suspect there's quite a few. We are a completely different marketing persona than those they hope to attract by making the UI "easier to use" or whatever they are trying to do actually.

We need to know what to expect by way of achieving some kind of parity between what we can do in 6.25 and future versions of 10--and roughly by when.

Meanwhile, I'll be checking out Nimbus again. I gave it a look a while back and don't recall why I didn't jump over then, but I think it had to do with the lack of a Chrome clipper, which is a pretty big part of the EN experience for me.

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8 hours ago, RavBoy said:

Thank you for reporting this.

Content is confusing. All about intentions. Nothing about being sorry about poor communication with (power) users and low quality standards. Nothing about honoring long-time advanced users. Nothing about the specific ways and means they want to use to get better. I can understand that it's hard to plan, but at least they should have some alternative strategies and coherent product vision plus high-level Product Road-map and Release Road-map.

If they plan to rebuild all in 12 months, the preview/beta stages should take a way longer. Preview should take next 7 months and beta another 5... Keeping in the same time fully supported "legacy version".

Unfortunately, it looks like living in a isolated "perfect world of the CEO bubble"... He speaks as a politician...

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17 hours ago, RavBoy said:

Will Evernote for Windows New Version 10 Succeed

I think Evernote will succeed with the new version 10 product; after the work-in-progress is completed
They are starting with a huge userbase;  over 200 million   
The masses don't care about the specific features being dropped

Then again; the masses use non-paying Basic accounts

>>As currently I have no intention of upgrading from 6.25

Same here.  I'll make a decision when the work is completed

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The COVID-19 situation is a big chance for companies like EN that offer a solution for off-site, connected work. It is not likely to harm any company in that field.

What can do harm is to loose a loyal part of the user base. It is this part that pays the bill. That only a fraction of those is reading or even active in the forum is not anything to count on. Who is here to look for advise or vent anger is still looking for improvement. Dangerous are those who fold it, export their data and move away.

The crucial thing is now how fast the still existing bugs are fixed, the missing functions are released and then maybe some new features are added. The mean time for renewal of subscriptions is 6 month - EN can loose a good part of its paying user base if things are not improved rapidly.

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9 minutes ago, RavBoy said:

Has or will COVID-19 kill Evernote?

Covid has nothing to do with this, IMO.  It probably slowed development and test a little, but likely that is it.  The current development direction was set well before the pandemic.  To speculate, I think Evernote will succeed, but maybe not in the form that some of us want.  The challenge for them is to add features that will entice free users over into a paid plan.  Evernote has been stagnant for some time and the number of paying users hasn't grown enough for them to stay on their present course and speed so the decision was made to move to a common development platform that will enable more rapid innovation.  Unfortunately, this decision has broken workflows and upset many current paying users.  Some will leave.  It will be interesting to see what they add in the short term to entice enough new paying users to overcome this deficit and start growing the business.

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I think the new version is great. I left EN around 4 years ago and moved to OneNote mainly because the formatting of notes in EN was so basic and it felt like I was using a giant piece of software from Windows 95 days lol.... not a modern lightweight and fast app like today.

I mean.... no consistent headers until the other day, in a modern note taking app!! Every single app I know of offers headers, even Simplenote.

I resubbed to premium the other day and spent yesterday moving notes from OneNote.

I don't have any performance issues, nice and quick and this is on all 4 windows PCs I've installed on. In fact the one PC in my studio is a 2012 i3 with 4GB RAM and the new EN flies!

@DTLow is right about the masses not worrying about specific niche features. They just want a note taking app that works, offers modern features and is available on all devices in a consistent way. Only thing I'd disagree on is that I think the majority of paid users will think the same as well.

So, new app and new subscriber to premium here.

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17 minutes ago, Jon/t said:

I don't have any performance issues, nice and quick and this is on all 4 windows PCs I've installed on. In fact the one PC in my studio is a 2012 i3 with 4GB RAM and the new EN flies!

Cheers.... yeah I just got my wife started on EN via a Basic account on her 4-year old PC. So after hearing of your success think I will upgrade her account/PC and see for myself. thanks

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21 hours ago, Jon/t said:

I think the new version is great. I left EN around 4 years ago and moved to OneNote mainly because the formatting of notes in EN was so basic and it felt like I was using a giant piece of software from Windows 95 days lol.... not a modern lightweight and fast app like today.

I mean.... no consistent headers until the other day, in a modern note taking app!! Every single app I know of offers headers, even Simplenote.

I resubbed to premium the other day and spent yesterday moving notes from OneNote.

I don't have any performance issues, nice and quick and this is on all 4 windows PCs I've installed on. In fact the one PC in my studio is a 2012 i3 with 4GB RAM and the new EN flies!

@DTLow is right about the masses not worrying about specific niche features. They just want a note taking app that works, offers modern features and is available on all devices in a consistent way. Only thing I'd disagree on is that I think the majority of paid users will think the same as well.

So, new app and new subscriber to premium here.

If formatting of notes is the crucial thing, then the new Evernote for Windows could be satisfactory. I'm looking forward to headers and highlight colors as well. I do use EN primarily for note-taking, not document storage. But the loss of features allowing the creation of notes from outside the Evernote program is a big hit. So is the loss of access to the full set of Windows fonts--the limitation to a few generic fonts feels very problematic, and not (I think) niche. I doubt if import folders should be considered "niche" either, though perhaps more for power users. But power users are more likely to be paying subscribers, who are needed to sustain the program long-term.

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From what is officially communicated, local notebooks are not a part of the future setup.

If you need to have local storage, AFAIK alternatives are limited. One solution (but Mac only) would be DEVONthink, that can be installed locally, with access from apps for Mac and iOS. Another might be NoteStation, running on a Synology NAS, with clients for all major OSes. Or a rather simple folder structure either on a local drive or a server / NAS. This could be based on a cloud server as well, using a program like Cryptomator to encrypt a whole vault on a cloud server.

QNAP I do not propose; they had some release issues in the last 2 years, and recently I have heard about a serious ransomware problem.

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On 10/11/2020 at 10:28 PM, RavBoy said:

Cheers.... yeah I just got my wife started on EN via a Basic account on her 4-year old PC. So after hearing of your success think I will upgrade her account/PC and see for myself. thanks

just a suspicion: the performance might be related to the number of notes: more notes - slower performance? just a thought...

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17 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

From what is officially communicated, local notebooks are not a part of the future setup.

If you need to have local storage, AFAIK alternatives are limited. One solution (but Mac only) would be DEVONthink, that can be installed locally, with access from apps for Mac and iOS. Another might be NoteStation, running on a Synology NAS, with clients for all major OSes. Or a rather simple folder structure either on a local drive or a server / NAS. This could be based on a cloud server as well, using a program like Cryptomator to encrypt a whole vault on a cloud server.

QNAP I do not propose; they had some release issues in the last 2 years, and recently I have heard about a serious ransomware problem.

Joplin would be another option for local storage and/or encryption...like devonthink it allows for importing of your evernote data...am currently looking into both...

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This reminds of IQTell. They had a great product and then started developing a new version. The new version had some minor enhancements but broke workflow and lacked many of the key features power users where using in the old version. The product management team did not answer questions and/or removed posts asking about lack of features. In the end they went out of business.

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Honestly, I really like the new windows app, I like the fact that I could start it up and know where everything is.  Like another poster above the new formatting options are great for me and knowing how they interact across my devices is a big thing for me.  I also trust the windows app way more! It syncs more consistently than ios and I have no fear of loss of data when I am using it (i do watch carefully for this with ios because it is not as consistent).  I am not a power user though and get that for others this is frustrating.  

I have looked at others to see what options are around, partly cause i love notes apps, I love messing with them.  I downloaded Nimbus earlier but its iPad app is really nasty, clunky layout, tabs hidden, formatting hidden, no email note or export options, so that was a definite no from me lol.

Personally I will persevere and hope specifically for massive improvements in the ios app both in stability and speed.  If i can get that and some decent export options - ie send in mail as pdf, I will be a happy camper.

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I've really been enjoying using the new app and signed back up to premium at the weekend because of the improvements so there's always another side to a story.

It always amuses me about the phrase 'power user'... this is a phrase that people tend to call themselves ;)

I've worked with a few SAAS companies over the years, all be it much smaller than Evernote, and none of them ever used this phrase.

What they did do was understand what percentage of the user base used which feature so that if only 1% used a certain piece of functionality they had to decide if it was worth dedicating expensive engineering time to 1%. Hard decision but needs to be done especially if a 1% feature is holding back development of features that 80% use!

Just my 2p.

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1 hour ago, Jon/t said:

It always amuses me about the phrase 'power user'... this is a phrase that people tend to call themselves ;)

That is probably true, but only because it is easier than saying "a user of a greater number of a products functions that the general user".

I do also agree that sometimes you have have to cull features that only a tiny percentage of people may use in a product (I have done it myself) but this was a major shift that removed a lot of things those "power users" used in their work flow, and for a lot of people, it will have been those features that were the difference in paying for a product or using an alternative.

Out of interest, what are the improvements in this version that made you sign back up as a premium user?

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27 minutes ago, DMiddleton said:

That is probably true, but only because it is easier than saying "a user of a greater number of a products functions that the general user".

I do also agree that sometimes you have have to cull features that only a tiny percentage of people may use in a product (I have done it myself) but this was a major shift that removed a lot of things those "power users" used in their work flow, and for a lot of people, it will have been those features that were the difference in paying for a product or using an alternative.

Out of interest, what are the improvements in this version that made you sign back up as a premium user?

 
 

I think the fact EN have 200 million+ users means the noise from taking these features away is much louder than with other apps. I had about 150 kicking off on a forum and even that made the whole product sounds like an utter disaster lol... they were another 60,000+ who thought everything was still great ;)

The main reasons for coming back for me were MUCH better and simpler formatting options so that notes look the same on all devices. Paragraph headers, I never understood why a note taking app didn't have paragraph headers and you had to select and resize a font to make one! I also love the dark mode which works great in my studio which has low light levels so a white background burns out your eyes when recording!! 

I also like the real time sync which I didn't realise was there until earlier, down the bottom right-hand corner its syncing every key press. I imagine they have some sort of real time collaboration feature to come soon which would utilise this just like Google Docs.

The app also seems more modern which is nice. It matches the feel of other software I use, softer fonts, smoother scrolling etc. Cosmetically it's nicer to use.

Main reason though is formatting... like 100 times better than before. The table functionality is a dream to work with!

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1 hour ago, Jon/t said:

The app also seems more modern which is nice. It matches the feel of other software I use, softer fonts, smoother scrolling etc. Cosmetically it's nicer to use.

Main reason though is formatting... like 100 times better than before. The table functionality is a dream to work with!

Well, this is a narrow conception of EN as a cross-platform cloud-based note editor - quite a commodity these days. Does the dev team share this opinion?

A considerable amount of users (you may adjectivate them as you want) have been subscribing to the premium service for many years and using Evernote as a power PRODUCTIVITY TOOL. In this perspective, EN (up to v. 6.x) is matchless.

That's why the new EN 10 - with so many long-established core features missing, slow navigation, and so on - delivers such a poor performance in the eyes of a relevant group of customers.

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On 10/12/2020 at 6:40 PM, daker said:

Well after all these years of using Evernote, I do see one significant concern for me is the loss of local notebooks.....

With over 100,000 notes, I maintain around 30,000 in local notebooks.   These local notebooks are mostly confidential and financial related. 

This appears to be a major deal breaker for me using Evernote.  It will be a major project for me to move off Evernote.

I will monitor this forum for any updates and alternatives.

What features are no longer supported in the new app?

This is not an exhaustive list of features, but the most notable include:

  • Local notebooks
  • Presentation mode
  • Context
  • ScanSnap Evernote Edition firmware and software
  • Outlook clipper

FWIW (perhaps not much), Outlook clipper works from within Outlook 365, at least for me.

I realize using the web app instead of the Outlook .exe probably has many other deal-breaker implications, but I thought I'd mention it.

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24 minutes ago, hanseric said:

FWIW (perhaps not much), I'm Outlook clipper works from within Outlook 365, at least for me.

I realize using the web app instead of the Outlook .exe probably has many other deal-breaker implications, but I thought I'd mention it.

You can install the Outlook extension, see this - it is the installed clipper that came with EN that is no longer available.

 

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51 minutes ago, mi_cha said:

Well, this is a narrow conception of EN as a cross-platform cloud-based note editor - quite a commodity these days. Does the dev team share this opinion?

I was asked why I moved back to Evernote after 3 years of using OneNote and I answered. I have no idea what dev teams think.

You may think my view is narrow but I have a very simple note taking system that works for me so I can get my work done quickly and efficiently.

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On 10/13/2020 at 12:40 AM, daker said:

What features are no longer supported in the new app?

This is not an exhaustive list of features, but the most notable include:

  • Local notebooks
  • Presentation mode
  • Context
  • ScanSnap Evernote Edition firmware and software
  • Outlook clipper

More can be added to the list

Nevertheless, missing features aren't the only problem. Other probably more concerning things are: total lack of a proper communication about the road-map and very poor quality of apps. They provided a buggy version as GA which in reality should be only a preview version, not even a beta.

It's like offering you new version of Netflix app, but this time without HD/UHD option, with 10x less movies/tv-series, but with a dark-mode... A version which resets movies during watching to the beginning every 15 minutes or freezes and not keep the list of recent episodes...

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6 hours ago, DMiddleton said:

Out of interest, what are the improvements in this version that made you sign back up as a premium user?

I'm extending the question to the irate users posting in these discussions
What prompted you to upgrade to this version?   
Why are staying with this version?   

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6 hours ago, hanseric said:

What EN needs to do is immediately get some solid communication out which is addressed specifically to users like us. I don't know how many of their customer base is "power", etc. but I suspect there's quite a few. We are a completely different marketing persona than those they hope to attract by making the UI "easier to use" or whatever they are trying to do actually.

We need to know what to expect by way of achieving some kind of parity between what we can do in 6.25 and future versions of 10--and roughly by when.

 

6 hours ago, DMiddleton said:

 

 

If only there was someone at Evernote that could make the above happen, could advise what most of us want to know and hear, could allay our doubts, that would be super customer service... who could do that @Ian Small

Lets wake him up! All together now.  WE WANT @Ian Small... WE WANT @Ian Small... WE WANT @Ian Small  Do you at least hear us Ian?????????????????????????????????

 

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On 10/15/2020 at 1:55 AM, hanseric said:

I could not have expressed this better myself. I'm a 10 year power user with about 20k notes and it saddens me to say I'm teetering on the edge of saying "eff it" and moving on.  It's very likely I'll be going back to 6.25 soon. But I'm kind of looking to see what kind of response EN is going to make toward their elite (if you will) users while still ferreting out all the changes. I need to assess how much of what's "missing" is just relocated and do I want to invest the time in relearning those locations.

Clearly this first minimum viable product or MVP (if it is indeed that) is lacking from our viewpoint so much that we're considering which new ship to jump toward.

What EN needs to do is immediately get some solid communication out which is addressed specifically to users like us. I don't know how many of their customer base is "power", etc. but I suspect there's quite a few. We are a completely different marketing persona than those they hope to attract by making the UI "easier to use" or whatever they are trying to do actually.

We need to know what to expect by way of achieving some kind of parity between what we can do in 6.25 and future versions of 10--and roughly by when.

Meanwhile, I'll be checking out Nimbus again. I gave it a look a while back and don't recall why I didn't jump over then, but I think it had to do with the lack of a Chrome clipper, which is a pretty big part of the EN experience for me.

I've downloaded Nimbus and am giving the web, Windows and Android versions a try at the moment.  Nimbus does some things differently to EN (in a good way), but a few things are a bit shaky.  There is a Chrome clipper, although it isn't quite as polished as the EN clipper.

If you import some EN notes from an enex file Nimbus give you a month of premium to try.

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On 10/17/2020 at 3:10 PM, logandb said:

I've downloaded Nimbus and am giving the web, Windows and Android versions a try at the moment.  Nimbus does some things differently to EN (in a good way), but a few things are a bit shaky.  There is a Chrome clipper, although it isn't quite as polished as the EN clipper.

If you import some EN notes from an enex file Nimbus give you a month of premium to try.

Nimbus Note seems like a very good alternative to EN, having given it a quick try my first impressions are these:

Plus with Nimbus

  • Very feature rich
  • Active development
  • Smart functions
  • Communication with their support very good

Negative with Nimbus

  • Web clipper (tried both Firefox and Chrome) not at all as good as EN clipper
  • Windows app not native and seem to be missing some functions compared to web
  • No import folder
  • Fewer apps integrate with Nimbus

Important with Nimbus

One thing to pay attention to with Nimbus though is that it seems you don't own your data! See below taken from their T&C (bolding mine):

The Company does not guarantee the security of any information transmitted to or from the Website. Any material, information or other communication You transmit or post to the Website will be considered non-confidential. The Company will have no obligations with respect to such communications. By transmitting or posting any information, You grant the Company an unrestricted royalty free right to copy, disclose, distribute, otherwise dispose and use of such information.

As I read the this paragraph they're basically saying that you they can disclose what I upload as they prefer. I've asked them what this means and am waiting for the answer still (support answered quickly, but needed to check with legal).

It is a shame how EN is handling this release. If there was clear communication and roadmap then I'd be more confident to stay. As it is now I'm using the legacy version. I asked them (recently) for both roadmap and how long legacy will remain but they haven't replied yet.

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Oft that’s not good regarding Nimbus. Some of what is in my Evernote is not for public use, it’s work related, I won’t go near that now. Thanks for highlighting that! 

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On 10/14/2020 at 3:09 AM, Jon/t said:

What they did do was understand what percentage of the user base used which feature so that if only 1% used a certain piece of functionality they had to decide if it was worth dedicating expensive engineering time to 1%. Hard decision but needs to be done especially if a 1% feature is holding back development of features that 80% use!

Which is all fine and the company's right as it is their decision to pick which markets in which to compete.  My issue is features have been cut with little to no communications at all. 

I downloaded IOS V10 on my phone and now EN is useless there.  I can search for things but all I get is a blob of notes that I have to scroll through, no value.  Had I had a heads up I would never have upgraded on the phone.  I didn't spend 30 minutes on V10 for Windows as again, I simply could not get any of my usual workflow done in anything approaching a reasonable time frame.  Thankfully it was easy to go back.  Add to all this that EN V10 is slower with a buggy sync. 

I must be in the 1% in multiple areas, does that make me a 5%er?   Interesting the number of Premium subscribers not typically seen but who are contributing to the forums these days.  They are probably some other 1%ers I suppose.  Can't quite tell but it seems EN's core market now leans to the note taker end of the spectrum   EN has lost some of its luster as a productivity app, it's just too hard to get things done. 

EN did a great job in helping me get paperless and became the hub for my tasks and all.  My note count has grown to over 50k in the process due to the focus.  Hopeful that some of the good stuff comes back before 6.25 sunsets. Relocating 50k notes is not something I want to do.

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2 hours ago, CalS said:

My issue is features have been cut with little to no communications at all. 

This.

Especially on iOS where no rollback is possible.  Even on Windows or the Mac, the installer should have included a link to a webpage that outlined the differences and gave you the opportunity to understand the changes before you "upgraded."  Instead, users upgraded in good faith that the new version would be a step forward, then realized what they got, became angry and then headed to the forums to find out how to downgrade.

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17 hours ago, Gnopps said:

Nimbus Note seems like a very good alternative to EN, having given it a quick try my first impressions are these:

Plus with Nimbus

  • Very feature rich
  • Active development
  • Smart functions
  • Communication with their support very good

Negative with Nimbus

  • Web clipper (tried both Firefox and Chrome) not at all as good as EN clipper
  • Windows app not native and seem to be missing some functions compared to web
  • No import folder
  • Fewer apps integrate with Nimbus

Important with Nimbus

One thing to pay attention to with Nimbus though is that it seems you don't own your data! See below taken from their T&C (bolding mine):

The Company does not guarantee the security of any information transmitted to or from the Website. Any material, information or other communication You transmit or post to the Website will be considered non-confidential. The Company will have no obligations with respect to such communications. By transmitting or posting any information, You grant the Company an unrestricted royalty free right to copy, disclose, distribute, otherwise dispose and use of such information.

As I read the this paragraph they're basically saying that you they can disclose what I upload as I prefer. I've asked them what this means and am waiting for the answer still (support answered quickly, but needed to check with legal).

It is a shame how EN is handling this release. If there was clear communication and roadmap then I'd be more confident to stay. As it is now I'm using the legacy version. I asked them (recently) for both roadmap and how long legacy will remain but they haven't replied yet.

I recently received an email (presumably automated) from the CEO/founder asking how I was finding Nimbus after downloaded it.  I quoted the same clause in my response and I'll post here if I receive any clarification.

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22 hours ago, wbutchart said:

Oft that’s not good regarding Nimbus. Some of what is in my Evernote is not for public use, it’s work related, I won’t go near that now. Thanks for highlighting that! 

you do realize though, that technically your notes in evernote can be read by evernote as well, correct? that's why I am so annoyed with the removal of local notebooks as there no longer is a way to keep notes truly private in evernote. a show stopper for me.

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7 hours ago, toao said:

you do realize though, that technically your notes in evernote can be read by evernote as well, correct? that's why I am so annoyed with the removal of local notebooks as there no longer is a way to keep notes truly private in evernote. a show stopper for me.

Perhaps they can, much like Apple can read my messages, goggle my emails and Microsoft any OneDrive stuff. The issue is nimbus seems to say they own that data, my data and can use it in ways they deem appropriate. That’s not ok, not ever, that’s a no go for me. 

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14 hours ago, wbutchart said:

Perhaps they can, much like Apple can read my messages, goggle my emails and Microsoft any OneDrive stuff. The issue is nimbus seems to say they own that data, my data and can use it in ways they deem appropriate. That’s not ok, not ever, that’s a no go for me. 

Apple cannot read your messages when you do not backup them in iCloud. That’s because there are two ways of encrypting stuff. One in which _you_ hold the keys (iMessage, but also EN competitor EvonThink), and one in which the provider holds the keys (e.g Google Drive, iCloud backup). Of course, when you hold the keys the service provider cannot give you anything extra by processing your data on their servers, it all needs to happen on your device(s). That’s one of the reasons why you need a fast processor to run iOS, while you can get away with a low end android phone. A lot of Google services “take care” of your data. Anyway: you holding the keys implies that you own the data, so look for services that implement that model.

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On 10/18/2020 at 7:58 AM, logandb said:

I recently received an email (presumably automated) from the CEO/founder asking how I was finding Nimbus after downloaded it.  I quoted the same clause in my response and I'll post here if I receive any clarification.

I just got one asking why I’m not using it, replied asking about this policy and told him with that in it I wouldn’t store a shopping list there! Be interesting to see what they say, I store a lot in my notes and it’s absolutely not intended for a company to use in any way they deem fit. It’s an absurd clause in my view and casts massive questions over the ethics of that company and its ceo. 

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On 10/17/2020 at 8:58 AM, Gnopps said:

One thing to pay attention to with Nimbus though is that it seems you don't own your data! See below taken from their T&C (bolding mine):

The Company does not guarantee the security of any information transmitted to or from the Website. Any material, information or other communication You transmit or post to the Website will be considered non-confidential. The Company will have no obligations with respect to such communications. By transmitting or posting any information, You grant the Company an unrestricted royalty free right to copy, disclose, distribute, otherwise dispose and use of such information.

Interested to hear what they say, but if they think they can have "unrestricted..." rights to my data, they can forget it. I'll never give them my data. Thanks for pointing that out.

Evernote isn't particularly secure either, but I don't think they have anything like that in their T&C. I should probably recheck it though...  Have you looked at theirs lately @wbutchart?

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23 minutes ago, hanseric said:

Interested to hear what they say, but if they think they can have "unrestricted..." rights to my data, they can forget it. I'll never give them my data. Thanks for pointing that out.

Evernote isn't particularly secure either, but I don't think they have anything like that in their T&C. I should probably recheck it though...  Have you looked at theirs lately @wbutchart?

I just had a glance through Evernote’s one and it’s really reassuring actually. It makes clear the data is ours, they won’t access it without our consent and it is never resold. I know there was a bad mistake a few years back when they added in employees could read data but they seem to have learned well from this. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 2:58 AM, logandb said:

I recently received an email (presumably automated) from the CEO/founder asking how I was finding Nimbus after downloaded it.  I quoted the same clause in my response and I'll post here if I receive any clarification.

I emailed him about some feature requests and comments, "he" (if that is him) did reply to me which was nice. I will also ask him the same question too, see what he will respond with.

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On 10/12/2020 at 8:54 AM, TK0047 said:

It won't be too long before heavy users will start looking for alternates as a back up plan. I started that process for the first time and I must say Nimbus looks like everything I want Evernote to be. So it can be done!

Long time user here.  I have already started looking for alternatives because I think this new version is marking the end of Evernote.  If they aren't going to cater to the power users, then they will lose to Google and Microsoft.  Thanks for the reference to Nimbus -- will check it out.

p.s. I can't believe the sync button is gone.  WTH!

edit:  Just tried Nimbus's web-app, windows app, Andriod app.  Am making the switch now....its kind of a no-brainer as long as the performance is still good after I load up 1600 notes.

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39 minutes ago, hdave said:

Long time user here.  I have already started looking for alternatives because I think this new version is marking the end of Evernote.  If they aren't going to cater to the power users, then they will lose to Google and Microsoft.  Thanks for the reference to Nimbus -- will check it out.

p.s. I can't believe the sync button is gone.  WTH!

edit:  Just tried Nimbus's web-app, windows app, Andriod app.  Am making the switch now....its kind of a no-brainer as long as the performance is still good after I load up 1600 notes.

Did you read all the above discussions about nimbus privacy policy? I hope to goodness there is nothing in anyway sensitive or work related you have just handed over to them - if so you probably best let your tech folks at work know you have committed a tech breach. I wouldn’t put my shopping list in their servers with that privacy policy. 

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This new version is too horrible to be true. I don't understand and i never seen something like this. Tested for a couple of hours and i just installed V6 again. There are so many issues... unbelievable.. i am very disapointed. Hope they can "fix" this mess.

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On 10/17/2020 at 5:58 AM, Gnopps said:

One thing to pay attention to with Nimbus though is that it seems you don't own your data! See below taken from their T&C (bolding mine):

I sent an email to Nimbus and got a response from the founder within 4 hours.  Not bad.  The essence of the response (my bolding):

Thank you for your question and for drawing our attention to this matter. It seems that our lawyers proposed the wording, which can be misunderstood. 
 
First of all, we will change the statement and review the whole Terms section since we don't use users' data for any other purposes than providing a service.  
 
Secondly, the main idea behind the statement was to simplify the interaction between users and Nimbus. We have many features and are adding new ones for collaboration between users, adding information from different sources via embeds, links, etc. Many scenarios appear when users manage their data (I'd like to emphasize that data belong to users), and all of them should be reflected in the terms. You can find similar statements in the terms of other similar products with better derivatization. 
 
Our lawyers have chosen the easiest way to mitigate risks by using the statement you saw. It's totally wrong, so this point has been already removed. Definitely, it's our responsibility to check such things, and we failed there. I am sorry to see that users have found such mistakes while we were working in other directions following one of the most strict compliance - Educational. You can check that on another page https://nimbusweb.me/security.php  The Legal Language is a completely different beast, and we will pay extra attention to the sections created a long time ago.
 
Our Next Steps:
  • Remove the statement which is opposite to the real situation (already done);
  • Update the terms section to ensure users are well informed about all the permissions they grant to us to provide a service.
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4 minutes ago, CalS said:

I sent an email to Nimbus and got a response from the founder within 4 hours.  Not bad.  The essence of the response (my bolding):

Thank you for your question and for drawing our attention to this matter. It seems that our lawyers proposed the wording, which can be misunderstood. 
 
First of all, we will change the statement and review the whole Terms section since we don't use users' data for any other purposes than providing a service.  
 
Secondly, the main idea behind the statement was to simplify the interaction between users and Nimbus. We have many features and are adding new ones for collaboration between users, adding information from different sources via embeds, links, etc. Many scenarios appear when users manage their data (I'd like to emphasize that data belong to users), and all of them should be reflected in the terms. You can find similar statements in the terms of other similar products with better derivatization. 
 
Our lawyers have chosen the easiest way to mitigate risks by using the statement you saw. It's totally wrong, so this point has been already removed. Definitely, it's our responsibility to check such things, and we failed there. I am sorry to see that users have found such mistakes while we were working in other directions following one of the most strict compliance - Educational. You can check that on another page https://nimbusweb.me/security.php  The Legal Language is a completely different beast, and we will pay extra attention to the sections created a long time ago.
 
Our Next Steps:
  • Remove the statement which is opposite to the real situation (already done);
  • Update the terms section to ensure users are well informed about all the permissions they grant to us to provide a service.

I just received the same response too from them too. They do respond which is nice by the way.

I am going to continue to experiment with it until V10 speeds up for me.

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Same response back to me as for @TK0047 and @CalS.  Quite encouraging, and I'll run it in parallel for a while to assess long-term feasibility.

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I just got at a response too from Nimbus - pointing me to this thread on Evernote to say the problem is solved.  It’s reassuring that they are listening and acting, an unusual response though.

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as we are talking about nimbus here, I have just stumbled over this, which (if authentic) is quite a different approach to talking about roadmap than EN's:

https://trello.com/b/yd03OcAi/nimbus-note-roadmap

still not a solution for me as nimbus is holding the keys to encryption and thus data cannot be private on their systems, but a huge positive difference in terms of transparency (again if indeed authentic).

am more and more leaning towards Devonthink (am a mac user) though in case EN does not re-introduce some substitute to local notebooks to keep data truly private *and* manages to miraculously speeds up V10...

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13 minutes ago, toao said:

still not a solution for me as nimbus is holding the keys to encryption and thus data cannot be private on their systems, but a huge positive difference in terms of transparency (again if indeed authentic).

I stand corrected! I have just asked nimbus support if such a feature was on their roadmap only to get feedback within literally 4 minutes that Nimbus notes does support local notebooks/folders! now this is *really* cool (for me)!..:-)

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7 hours ago, wbutchart said:

It’s reassuring that they are listening and acting, an unusual response though.

How so?

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5 minutes ago, CalS said:

How so?

Instead of dealing directly with my question they linked me to another companies forums as evidence of resolution. 

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