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DMiddleton

Devs: Post a full roadmap for users

Idea

54 replies to this idea

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2 minutes ago, tm87 said:

Yes.

Especially if features are dropped for good. For example I'm afraid this may be the case for import folders, because these probably won't work on all clients. Should I accept this and move on or do I just need to wait? No idea...

 

(As to the communication so far: I was also impressed with the "behind the scenes"-videos, but the communication around the new clients was disappointing (besides the bugs). If you drop a whole bunch of features and the new client is much, much slimmer (-> less capable) at least say so up front, together with some explanation about the next steps.

Otherwise disapointment seems guranteed, especially with people who don't drop into this forum and dig deep enough to find the earlier information.)

I don't think I have ever known of another product where a new 'improved' version was released that dropped a load of the existing functionality?
And your point "because these probably won't work on all clients" is a good one, I understand they are going for a more unified approach so the clients operate/look the same on all devices - BUT, different operating systems and more so the devices themselves are used by people in different was so trying to make each the same in my opinion is a bad product strategy.

I use the functions on my  desktop/laptop in a totally different way to the mobile client and so wouldn't expect the mobile app to have things like the toolbar or context options on the navigation panel. I am all for software that behaves in a 'similar' way across devices but with productivity software I think you have to cater to the functional use of each device/OS too.

Time will tell how it plays out, I just hope they are not trying to aim towards more casual users and forgetting about people that use the power features.

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This is a good, productive idea vs. most of the complaining we have been doing (including me).

Yeah, I am sure there were reasons for the removed features for the time being and some of them will come back. But hearing it from Evernote directly would go a long ways for sure. People want to know where it is going even without dates. We waited for this release almost 2 years since the announcement of good things coming etc. I am ok with not having dates assigned to the roadmap.

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1 hour ago, DMiddleton said:

Time will tell how it plays out, I just hope they are not trying to aim towards more casual users and forgetting about people that use the power features.

I hope so too but I fear that is exactly who they are targetting driven on by the self appointed productivity gurus who have been down on Evernote for a while. Eventually they will realise that casual users are exactly that and don't convert to premium users who actually pay for the product. Meanwhile premium users will wonder whether we actually want to pay for something that is so stripped down from the product we know and love. My main reason for being premium is to have lots of different versions on lots of different devices. If the windows version is just the web version in a window I may not need premium any longer. I've suspected for a while that we will see a change in subscription model because of that.

The nightmare scenario of course is no free versions in the future. With no local notebooks anymore that means you have to pay to access your data. That doesn't bear thinking about.

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On 10/10/2020 at 10:48 AM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Cross-platform similarity is good; cross-platform lowest common denominator functionality is sure loser.

Words to live by!

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Developers with any sense (and that is being called into question, I'm aware) don't release dates/timelines for features. But I agree that a simple table of "coming soon / working on it / gone for good" would actually restore a sense of rational confidence in many users who have been severely shaken by this.

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12 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

a simple table of "coming soon / working on it / gone for good" would actually restore a sense of rational confidence in many users who have been severely shaken by this.

Agreed. They have already started this here:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047889234-What-s-new-in-Evernote-for-Windows

We just need it to be complete and cover all the issues that were raised in the preview and beta. I'm not seeing alot of issues raised now that I've not already seen raised - we know what all the issues are already and they have been well documented in the preview and then the beta forums.

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4 hours ago, Mike P said:

Agreed. They have already started this here:

https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047889234-What-s-new-in-Evernote-for-Windows

We just need it to be complete and cover all the issues that were raised in the preview and beta. I'm not seeing alot of issues raised now that I've not already seen raised - we know what all the issues are already and they have been well documented in the preview and then the beta forums.

Absolutely, that was my main point. While they have given some details I think they should address the sheer amount of things so far un-answered, I think that alone would give users a better sense of the direction. I have noticed a lot of comments across different sites, such as on Reddit where people have the exact same issues we all raised during testing and are now looking for alternatives to move away from EN.

I was quietly impressed with the initial videos EN started producing to be more open and explain what was going on with the product but that seems to have stopped now and it almost seems like it is just "this is the product, we are pressing ahead with it regardless of your feedback".

Even a bit more engagement on the forum would be good too, towards the end of the beta that picked up a bit and I think it helped people to see some notice was being paid (even though it was mainly related to bugs). 

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Yes.

Especially if features are dropped for good. For example I'm afraid this may be the case for import folders, because these probably won't work on all clients. Should I accept this and move on or do I just need to wait? No idea...

 

(As to the communication so far: I was also impressed with the "behind the scenes"-videos, but the communication around the new clients was disappointing (besides the bugs). If you drop a whole bunch of features and the new client is much, much slimmer (-> less capable) at least say so up front, together with some explanation about the next steps.

Otherwise disapointment seems guranteed, especially with people who don't drop into this forum and dig deep enough to find the earlier information.)

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3 hours ago, Mike P said:

Meanwhile premium users will wonder whether we actually want to pay for something that is so stripped down from the product we know and love.

I've been asking myself if note history, emailing to EN, the upload limit, and multiple devices are worth the Premium tariff  Three of which don't even appear on their compare plans page anymore???  

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On 10/10/2020 at 5:18 AM, Mike P said:

Meanwhile premium users will wonder whether we actually want to pay for something that is so stripped down from the product we know and love.

Upload limit and note size are my #1 reason for a premium subscription   
I can not survive on the Basic Account limits

I also can not survive on the stripped down v10; I'm using the legacy version

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3 hours ago, Mike P said:

Meanwhile premium users will wonder whether we actually want to pay for something that is so stripped down from the product we know and love.

That is where I am.  For years I paid for premium to support the company and software.  I wasn't using any of the premium features.  That changed as I started using it for business more and more but now with local notebooks gone, and I keep all work related notes in local notebooks for security, I'm moving my work usage into OneNote.  I'll still continue with Evernote for home use but with the reduction in features it will be difficult for me to justify the premium payment.  I don't renew until April.  I will follow how the clients develop and will decide then whether to stay on with premium.

I'm sure Evernote expected some broken eggs in the process when they decided to remove function.

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3 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I'm sure Evernote expected some broken eggs in the process when they decided to remove function.

Or we and they have a different concept of what function is?  Based on all the kind of new Premium users contributing to the conversation some negative chords were hit.  I guess I'm just not sure of the target market for this version.  Definitely is not me.

download.jpg.716a025efbddc366e2b44043b2e3cf1e.jpg

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12 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I'm moving my work usage into OneNote.  I'll still continue with Evernote for home use but with the reduction in features it will be difficult for me to justify the premium payment.  I don't renew until April.  I will follow how the clients develop and will decide then whether to stay on with premium.

This is exactly where I am, I moved all my business stuff to OneNote a little while ago - the big miss compared to EN is the tagging system which I really do like about EN.
I am still going to use it for personal use and see how it goes and what makes it back into the client as they continue development, but I wont be renewing my subs either if it is no better.

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Couldn’t agree more, for all platforms. Some users have woken up to a product that’s very different to what they’re used to, with many older features missing. The problem right now is that it’s not clear what’s a bug, what’s just yet to be implemented and what’s gone forever. 

The current version simply isn’t right for me but there is no way to know how, or if, it’s going to change for the better. My iPad for example is totally unusable, should I assume that’s how it’s going to be from now on? I can’t use scripts on desktop or print from my phone, is that supposed to be the case too?

A roadmap would help assure users which features are returning. For those features that will never return, well, it’s better to be honest with people than to string them along to the point of frustration.

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As an ECC, I don't know how to proceed at this point. I promote Evernote all the time to everyone, but I'm conflicted about continuing to do so. I was also preparing an online course and again, I'm not sure if I should invest my time in it at this point. If Evernote is removing functionality, it's going to lose a lot of its attraction for me. I did not update and have no plans to do so for some time. I always thought that having the software configured to the platform it was on was a BENEFIT, not a negative. Seems Evernote didn't agree.

As someone who runs my whole business in there and much of my life, I don't look forward to having to switch to something like OneNote which doesn't offer the same level of security on the back end that Evernote has always promoted. Plus I don't want to spend the time setting up all I do in another platform.

Evernote developers, please hear your Premium users! All you had to do was fix some of the bugs in the legacy version and maybe add a few more perks. We didn't need this massive overhaul!

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On 10/11/2020 at 11:24 AM, bishopblaize said:

A roadmap would help assure users which features are returning. For those features that will never return, well, it’s better to be honest with people than to string them along to the point of frustration.

We all may be over-reacting (or under-reacting). Problem is that we do not know either way. If most of those features are coming back really soon, then we are panicking for no reason but all of them are going away then we have every right to speak up now before it is too late. But we do not know the plans right. Communication and a roadmap will go long ways right now as a lot of premium members are disappointed to say the least.

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Old management adage goes something like  - "If you don't tell folks anything they will start making stuff up."

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1 hour ago, Sandeelynne3 said:

I promote Evernote all the time to everyone, but I'm conflicted about continuing to do so.

imho  We have to put the "promote Evernote" on hold   
Check back in a month or so

For pre v10 users, don't panic; stay calm    
Your Evernote version still works fine
Same advice; check back in a month or so   
And don't upgrade to v10 until the work-in-progress is completed

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I am a notorious early adopter. I've been a premium member since they launched the service. I've been through this before and waited it out. I'll do it again this time. It's worth it, I think.

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On 10/9/2020 at 8:19 PM, DMiddleton said:

If you agree please think about giving this post a vote in the hope it is picked up by the team.

I don't know how to vote your post up, but I certainly gave it a 'like'.  I agree with all of your points and suggestions.  I think the release of the mac version was irresponsible and extremely disappointing.

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2 minutes ago, markdolph said:

I don't know how to vote your post up, but I certainly gave it a 'like'.  I agree with all of your points and suggestions.  I think the release of the mac version was irresponsible and extremely disappointing.

At the top of the post click the up arrow to include your vote (highlighted below).
image.png.55063c3f3a222a60191e470d6256431c.png

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duh!... I see it.  Thanks. 

I've committed to a process of continuing to use the v10 release and reporting issues. I guess I'm willing to do whatever I can to help Evernote survive this fiasco.

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Here are some items I've gathered from the various posts that are missing from your table. Note that I never installed v10, so I don't know how accurate these are.

  • I can't create a Notebook inside the Notebook stack as I always did. You need to first create the Notebook, then move it to stack
  • I can't grab a screen capture anymore
  • I can't Paste text directly to Evernote note (CTRL+shitf+V) anymore
  • I can't import a folder anymore
  • I can't un-stack a Notebook from a stack using right click mouse. I need to drag an drop them.
  • I can't narrow a search inside a specific Notebook or Notebook Stack.
  • Clipped bookmarks can't be edited in the new editor.  It is possible to do so in the legacy version.
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28 minutes ago, DMiddleton said:

I have implemented my own initial version of this, let me know what needs adding to it or if you are aware of any changes/updates to the availability or planned status of any of the listed items.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s249/sh/3fabdc13-3d55-9e1f-981b-9d4b43d74975/739ec1c7ac579089ac6d0ecdf2a8ddd1

 

This isn’t working for me (ironic lol!) says don’t have permission to view or note has been moved. 

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8 minutes ago, wbutchart said:

This isn’t working for me (ironic lol!) says don’t have permission to view or note has been moved. 

Strange, it is shared with 'Anyone can view'... maybe I should have put it in something other than Evernote.

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2 minutes ago, DMiddleton said:

Strange, it is shared with 'Anyone can view'... maybe I should have put it in something other than Evernote.

It worked fine for me. I know that the user has to be logged into the web first.  Maybe that's the issue? Or perhaps you need a Pro Account to view shared notes?

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36 minutes ago, DMiddleton said:

I have implemented my own initial version of this, let me know what needs adding to it or if you are aware of any changes/updates to the availability or planned status of any of the listed items.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s249/sh/3fabdc13-3d55-9e1f-981b-9d4b43d74975/739ec1c7ac579089ac6d0ecdf2a8ddd1

 

Nicely done.  If only Evernote had posted something similar "prior" to releasing v10.

One comment on the table, concerning the Outlook clipper, as I understand it, the desktop clipper has been removed, so if you use the Outlook desktop app you are SOL.  The Outlook clipper browser plug-in is available for those that use the web version of Outlook.

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2 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

One comment on the table, concerning the Outlook clipper, as I understand it, the desktop clipper has been removed, so if you use the Outlook desktop app you are SOL.  The Outlook clipper browser plug-in is available for those that use the web version of Outlook.

The clipper installed as part of EN has gone, but there is an add in available in Outlook Desktop, click 'Get Add-ins' on the ribbon menu and search for Evernote.

image.png.dac940cc4a4e928136dac761452bb99a.png

You can then still save emails to EN.

image.png.3118acaf8b37aeef6156a060bbf61191.png

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7 minutes ago, DMiddleton said:

but there is an add in available in Outlook Desktop, click 'Get Add-ins' on the ribbon menu and search for Evernote.

Thanks - glad to be wrong on this one.

Also, I've seen "somewhere" that top list view is coming but can't find the posting at the moment.

It was in the Mac forum, but since common code is used, it should apply to Windows too.

 

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36 minutes ago, lisec said:

Here are some items I've gathered from the various posts that are missing from your table. Note that I never installed v10, so I don't know how accurate these are.

  • I can't create a Notebook inside the Notebook stack as I always did. You need to first create the Notebook, then move it to stack
  • I can't grab a screen capture anymore
  • I can't Paste text directly to Evernote note (CTRL+shitf+V) anymore
  • I can't import a folder anymore
  • I can't un-stack a Notebook from a stack using right click mouse. I need to drag an drop them.
  • I can't narrow a search inside a specific Notebook or Notebook Stack.
  • Clipped bookmarks can't be edited in the new editor.  It is possible to do so in the legacy version.

The stack parts used to be on the right click context menu which I have included, the import folder function has been removed but the Ctrl + Shift + V is apparently still there as per this article (I haven't tried it myself): https://help.evernote.com/hc/en-us/articles/209004807

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1 hour ago, lisec said:

I can't narrow a search inside a specific Notebook or Notebook Stack.

You can narrow a search within a specific notebook but not in a stack. You can filter both within a notebook or a stack.

Edit: You can select a stack but then the filter icon disappears which is insane.

1 hour ago, lisec said:

I can't create a Notebook inside the Notebook stack as I always did. You need to first create the Notebook, then move it to stack

You can. From the full notebook menu click the three dots for the stack

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1 minute ago, Mike P said:

You can narrow a search within a specific notebook but not in a stack. You can filter both within a notebook or a stack.

Can you share instructions/screenshot @MikeP?

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10 minutes ago, DMiddleton said:

Can you share instructions/screenshot @MikeP?

  • Choose the notebook first
  • open the search bar
  • beneath the search bar is the name of the notebook (very faint gray) and "add filter" in blue
  • Click add filter and then add whatever other filters and text you want

image.png.7029639061b875f4763f9e755640e2fe.png

 

So this search is for notes in my @inbox folder which contain images and the word "daily"

image.png.ff532ecdc29c7f9b6505a94ef8ef6063.png

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30 minutes ago, lisec said:

It worked fine for me. I know that the user has to be logged into the web first.  Maybe that's the issue? Or perhaps you need a Pro Account to view shared notes?

I have a premium account, I’m logged into the web app too. When I click it tries to open the Evernote app on the iPad and then gives me an error. Ironic that a note tracking issues can’t open due to a bug. 

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1 minute ago, wbutchart said:

I have a premium account, I’m logged into the web app too. When I click it tries to open the Evernote app on the iPad and then gives me an error. Ironic that a note tracking issues can’t open due to a bug. 

That seems insane, if you hold on the link do you get any options to open in another browser tab instead? 
Sounds like the iPad is automatically trying to open it in the EN app.

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1 hour ago, DMiddleton said:

I have implemented my own initial version of this, let me know what needs adding to it or if you are aware of any changes/updates to the availability or planned status of any of the listed items.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s249/sh/3fabdc13-3d55-9e1f-981b-9d4b43d74975/739ec1c7ac579089ac6d0ecdf2a8ddd1

 

Thank you, it would be great if the Evernote team would work on such a list as well. 

To add something to the list: 

 

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13 minutes ago, DMiddleton said:

Can you share instructions/screenshot @MikeP?

On the filtering. You can select a notebook first and then just filter with the filter menu. It's very similar to the search you just can't add text. 

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3 minutes ago, Chris_NL said:

Thank you, it would be great if the Evernote team would work on such a list as well. 

To add something to the list: 

 

I have added this to the list, I will keep this updated as we all become aware of updates/improvements.

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To the moderators - any way of pinning this thread? 

1 hour ago, DMiddleton said:

I have implemented my own initial version of this, let me know what needs adding to it or if you are aware of any changes/updates to the availability or planned status of any of the listed items.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s249/sh/3fabdc13-3d55-9e1f-981b-9d4b43d74975/739ec1c7ac579089ac6d0ecdf2a8ddd1

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Mike P said:

On the filtering. You can select a notebook first and then just filter with the filter menu. It's very similar to the search you just can't add text. 

Got you, I think my issue was that I have a lot of stacks and am generally in one of those or the 'All Notes' section.

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3 minutes ago, DMiddleton said:

Got you, I think my issue was that I have a lot of stacks and am generally in one of those or the 'All Notes' section.

I have no idea why you can not search or filter within a stack. If you are in All notes you might be lucky and the notebook is in the list (this is possibly based on recent use??) or you can add it with notebook:ABC. Easiest is definitely to get into the mentality of notebook -> "filter" -> text which obviously seems most logical to the developer.

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2 hours ago, DMiddleton said:

That seems insane, if you hold on the link do you get any options to open in another browser tab instead? 
Sounds like the iPad is automatically trying to open it in the EN app.

That worked, I was able to hold the link and open in background and could see it and after a few attempts save it. Though it comes up now as my own copy not your shared file, is that expected? I wondered if it was a shared file any changes you make would be pushed to our version too?

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11 hours ago, wbutchart said:

That worked, I was able to hold the link and open in background and could see it and after a few attempts save it. Though it comes up now as my own copy not your shared file, is that expected? I wondered if it was a shared file any changes you make would be pushed to our version too?

I think if you save it to your own EN it is just a copy of the current - I don't think it will receive any updates unfortunately, which is why it would be better if EN would just publish a list like this for everyone to see.

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18 hours ago, wbutchart said:

I have a premium account, I’m logged into the web app too. When I click it tries to open the Evernote app on the iPad and then gives me an error. Ironic that a note tracking issues can’t open due to a bug. 

The link worked fine for me when I clicked on it using my Windows system that is running the legacy version of EN.  I later clicked on the link from my iPhone that has v10 installed and see this issue as well.  It opens EN on my phone and displays an error message.  Looks to be a v10 issue..

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1 hour ago, s2sailor said:

The link worked fine for me when I clicked on it using my Windows system that is running the legacy version of EN.  I later clicked on the link from my iPhone that has v10 installed and see this issue as well.  It opens EN on my phone and displays an error message.  Looks to be a v10 issue..

As it is happening in iPads and iPhones it may well be the default opening options trying to open the app instead of the browser to view it. Could be worth trying to copy the link and paste it into the address bar of Safari (or whatever browser) on your Apple device to see if it loads.

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19 minutes ago, DMiddleton said:

As it is happening in iPads and iPhones it may well be the default opening options trying to open the app instead of the browser to view it. Could be worth trying to copy the link and paste it into the address bar of Safari (or whatever browser) on your Apple device to see if it loads.

That does appear to be what is happening.  A long press shows several options including open in browser and open in Evernote.  The last option used appears to be the default.  So, not a bug but a design decision and now that I understand what it is doing, seems fine to me.

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I think this says everything, taken from the help page where you can install the legacy version:

Quote

We recognize that there may be some scenarios where it’s necessary or desirable to use an older version of Evernote. This version is only temporarily available while we work to bring a few of the legacy features to our new apps.

 

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On 10/9/2020 at 10:49 AM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

simple table of "coming soon

That would surprise me... During my 6 yrs there, it was a very firm "we don't announce timelines/dates" that whole time. But a lot can change in over a year... :)

 

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2 hours ago, dcon said:
On 10/9/2020 at 1:49 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

simple table of "coming soon

That would surprise me... During my 6 yrs there, it was a very firm "we don't announce timelines/dates" that whole time. But a lot can change in over a year... :)

OK, eliminate "soon": "coming when we finish it"; "coming when we get to it"; "never coming."

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1 minute ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

"coming when we finish it"

Wait - does that imply there's actually an end date to an application's development? 🤣

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Yes.  I don't believe we are forced to accept something that is so slow without consultation.  If it is not ready, pls do more serious work before forcing it down everyone's throat.  

Evernote management pls do something about it.   I hope we don't have to protest outside of this forum before the message is heard and action is taken to care for the customer's experience.

I will be seriously looking for an alternative if nothing is done about it.
 

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