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Tim H

Version 10

Idea

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Many things were said here, and they are true.

What I do not understand is why these releases are rushed out as if there is a strong deadline to be met.

Who or what is driving this rally ? Even if some bugs maybe made it through beta undiscovered, what was obvious before rolling out must have been how much is missing from the versions before.

Some of it will never return, but there is much more that is promised, but undelivered. Some more time before rolling out would have allowed to get more stuff done, and release a much sounder 1st edition.

Now we are watching at a torso of the app we knew, and wonder how long it will take to make our workflows operational again.

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1 hour ago, tommy_ev said:

So I am pretty sure that this media coverage leads to a considerable amount of new users,

But new users bring zero revenue to the company. They have to convert to premium and the premium option is getting less and less attractive. e.g. presentation mode gone, Windows version is just the web in a window so why bother to increase your number of devices count.

 

1 hour ago, tommy_ev said:

All the bigger productivity youtubers and blogs seem to join in the official evernote narrative about a great new era.

The self appointed productivity gurus hate mature products that just do what they are supposed to do. Nothing for them to write about or screencast about. Much better to have a pretty new app that does nothing of any substance  but has three days between new releases. Then every week they can get excited about how it now includes the ability to add commas or some other micro improvement.

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There is no option to set default font size for new notes !!!

There is nothing under the  "preferences" menu !!!

is this a joke😲

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1 hour ago, JohnnySpice said:

I've upgraded to version 10 and now all of my applescripts don't work. Is this even supported in v10?

Nope.  This is the Windows forum by the way.  Same answer in the Mac forum though.

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Just the fact that the very common and massively advertised Ctrl + Q search shortcut has been changed destroys so much productivity that the other improvements cannot compensate for it.

Honestly, the developer who came up with this very stupid idea should rather do other tasks.

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I really do want to like it and use it. Looks really good cosmetically especially with the dark mode. Card view looks nicer too. 

The ability to TAB your way into different areas of the screen for keyboard shortcuts is great too (although it does not work all the way)

But other than these visuals I cannot really find anything that is working with my workflow. I have almost 29,000 notes so Evernote is a HUGE part of my life, work and personal.

The sluggishness is killing it. I cannot really create notes as fast I used and even when I paste a screenshot into it, I am waiting for the pop up screen to go away. 

My keyboard shortcuts that makes it so fast for me is either mostly gone or does not work all the time. For example, F3 to tag does not work all the time when I am in the note editor. It feels like I could have used a visual upgrade to the 6.25 with the dark mode and some tweaks and would be happy with it. Right now, it again feels like A LOT of features have been removed and what replaced them or what has improved is not really making up for those.

Searching may be faster with recommendations etc. but if the note does not load up as quickly, how good is that? Or if I cannot switch from note to note quickly, again the ability to search faster does not really help. 

I am hoping, this release was partially due to release something to the users who has been waiting for a long time and the updates, features are around the corner. Otherwise, I will have to stick with the legacy version too and may have to start seriously looking into some alternates which really hurts me because I really am a big fan of Evernote for years!

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Without much enthusiasm, I can say this in their defense: there have been calls, even outcries, for a unified editor and UX across platforms for many years. They took a deep breath and said, OK, we'll rebuild 'er from the ground up. It took longer (of course) than expected. Part of the unification is having the same bugs everywhere. None of the clients (except maybe the Web, which has been the seedbed, and is not expected to have some of the features now missing from the apps) is what it should be at this point. But this is a version of what people have been hollering for.

>> Be careful what you wish for. <<

(Why can I do that here and not in the Windows program?)

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5 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

@Tim H, I'm with you on about all of this. WRT fonts, see the thread I started in the other v. 10 forum. WRT preferences, this is included in the list of features not yet implemented (see the What's New post). So apparently it will be coming. I'm just not going to update/downgrade until about v. 10.8, if then.

"It will be coming" , on something what we already had. Apology, it's too much for me. I am glad others have taken their time to write. I lost my patience. 

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3 hours ago, add101020 said:

Just the fact that the very common and massively advertised Ctrl + Q search shortcut has been changed destroys so much productivity that the other improvements cannot compensate for it.

Honestly, the developer who came up with this very stupid idea should rather do other tasks.

Impressive how many users are thinking the same... except for EN management seems to be. 

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24 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Without much enthusiasm, I can say this in their defense: there have been calls, even outcries, for a unified editor and UX across platforms for many years. They took a deep breath and said, OK, we'll rebuild 'er from the ground up. It took longer (of course) than expected. Part of the unification is having the same bugs everywhere. None of the clients (except maybe the Web, which has been the seedbed, and is not expected to have some of the features now missing from the apps) is what it should be at this point. But this is a version of what people have been hollering for.

>> Be careful what you wish for. <<

(Why can I do that here and not in the Windows program?)

Not sure if this adds anything. "Be careful what we wish for" Really? 

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Maybe read the ancient story of King Midas:

He wished that everything he touched would convert into pure gold. The gods granted his wish, and he starved to death - because you can’t eat gold.

About the handwriting: This should be possible in all rel. 10 versions by picking a font style in the new formatting menu:

AA3CBF68-832B-4069-9474-3C9CA5E09D9D.thumb.jpeg.9c91bb424e25b5d4e7c3b6e479112c47.jpeg

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With a sigh, I reverted to the legacy version of Evernote. I expect Evernote will improve and evolve, but, like others, Evernote 10 was slower on my Windows computer than Evernote 6. I also can't do without the keyboard shortcuts, create a new note and paste text into a note. 

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4 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Maybe read the ancient story of King Midas:

He wished that everything he touched would convert into pure gold. The gods granted his wish, and he starved to death - because you can’t eat gold.

About the handwriting: This should be possible in all rel. 10 versions by picking a font style in the new formatting menu:

AA3CBF68-832B-4069-9474-3C9CA5E09D9D.thumb.jpeg.9c91bb424e25b5d4e7c3b6e479112c47.jpeg

Apology, this is my mistake. I had no idea that before downloading the latest version, you had to read first the ancient story of King  Midas to make sense out of this. I thought it is the same as with cars. If you get the latest version, you expect all the same features plus some extra. How stupid of me? Thank you for the enlightenment.

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17 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Without much enthusiasm, I can say this in their defense: there have been calls, even outcries, for a unified editor and UX across platforms for many years. They took a deep breath and said, OK, we'll rebuild 'er from the ground up. It took longer (of course) than expected. Part of the unification is having the same bugs everywhere. None of the clients (except maybe the Web, which has been the seedbed, and is not expected to have some of the features now missing from the apps) is what it should be at this point. But this is a version of what people have been hollering for.

>> Be careful what you wish for. <<

(Why can I do that here and not in the Windows program?)

I think it's noble of you to attempt a defence for their update and I would be inclined to agree with you IF what you said was actually so.

Unfortunately, this update does not represent the "unified editor" that people have been calling for. In fact, when one looks at it, there are actually no new features at all. It could be said that the existing features that have always been there, ie checkboxes and bullet points have been made more obvious, and it's easier for a user who is not accustomed to power-search to search by the parameters with the dropdown menu. However all of this functionality has always been there.

What genuine new features have been added? All I can see is features have been taken away. I echo all the other posts who say it's massively slowed them down because you could operate Evernote just with keyboard shortcuts. I spent like half an hour thinking I was going crazy looking to see how I could view it as a top-list view. But apparently that's been taken out?

I dunno, I'm gravely dissappointed by this. PS I'm actually a mac user, but all the same points apply. This was just the first V10 post that I could see, I'm surprised there weren't more reactionary posts.

One of the most serious consequences of this update is, they have effectively changed and re-formated millions of peoples notes with no prior warning or permission. What is going on? The program is slower. Some things are welcome, however I don't see why these updates had to come at the expense of so much. I really think they messed up here, and whoever is leading the project should seriously consider their position. I've heard Evernote hasn't been doing well the last few years, and I fear that these changes have been made in a reactionary way trying to cater to what they believe will orient their product to a more consumer-centric base, like Apple. But at the end of the day, their business comes from us, the majority of which are power users. Alienating core and long-time users is not a good way to grow your business. I feel far less inclined to recommend it as it is now. Similarly I can't see that the changes they've actually made as making Evernote significantly more appealing to newcomers. They keep saying they're going for a cleaner look, but I don't feel like the outcome really matches their stated intention at all. It was a lot cleaner before the redesigns. It was infinitely faster too.

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There are two things we need to understand as users:

  • EN management has decided there is no viable way to continue to support the grown ecosystem of 5 independent platforms. What we know as „our“ EN is now vintage, still running but effectively abandoned.
  • The „new“ EN has stepped into the light with the release of ver. 10. Soon Android will be added, completing the transition. This is the future for all EN users, like it or not. All new development will start from here, it is a true EN 2.0-moment.

The only link to what has been is that the data structure still allows to use vintage and new clients on the same data base.

With new OS releases the vintage clients will loose operability - probably on some platforms faster, slower on others.

Conclusion: Every User needs to decide if he likes what he gets. There are other apps based on the Electron platform that are successful (see https://www.electronjs.org/ for details).

If yes, anybody of us can abandon the vintage app and make the transition. If not, one needs to look for an alternative.

For the time being, I am sitting on the fence, neither in nor out.

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29 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

For the time being, I am sitting on the fence, neither in nor out.

Likewise   
I'm content using the legacy software and have no pressure to switch   
If/when that software no longer functions - I'll have to make a decision.    
Until then - no worries; no angst

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I do not like the direction that has been taken at all. So I have cancelled my subscription.

 

The fact that many perfectly sensible feature requests are being ignored was acceptable as long as we could thing the developers' time was being used to improve the software for a new release further down the way. With this release, I can see that this has clearly not been the case.

Lots of resources have been poured into a low performance piece of software. Its main purpose is to be easier to maintain on multiple platforms.

Software should be getting faster, fixing problems and bringing more functionnality to the user with new versions. A different path has been taken here.

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16 minutes ago, Vstk said:

Software should be getting faster, fixing problems and bringing more functionality to the user with new versions

Hard to argue with this.

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1 hour ago, basicchannel said:

I think it's noble of you to attempt a defence for their update and I would be inclined to agree with you IF what you said was actually so.

Unfortunately, this update does not represent the "unified editor" that people have been calling for. In fact, when one looks at it, there are actually no new features at all. It could be said that the existing features that have always been there, ie checkboxes and bullet points have been made more obvious, and it's easier for a user who is not accustomed to power-search to search by the parameters with the dropdown menu. However all of this functionality has always been there.

Let me be clear that I'm not trying to defend v. 10, which is clearly badly borked. But there are a few new things in the editor that people have requested for a long time: styles, more highlight colors, and dark mode come quickly to mind. IMO, these are trivial in comparison with what has been dropped or not yet implemented. But that was my point WRT "be careful what you ask for."

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2 hours ago, basicchannel said:

This was just the first V10 post that I could see, I'm surprised there weren't more reactionary posts.

Go to any of the V10 forums, Windows, Mac or IOS and you will get more posts than you might care to view...

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23 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

There are two things we need to understand as users:

  • EN management has decided there is no viable way to continue to support the grown ecosystem of 5 independent platforms. What we know as „our“ EN is now vintage, still running but effectively abandoned.
  • The „new“ EN has stepped into the light with the release of ver. 10. Soon Android will be added, completing the transition. This is the future for all EN users, like it or not. All new development will start from here, it is a true EN 2.0-moment.

Sorry, but where is it written that throwing the baby out with the bathwater is the preferred transition path to development utopia?  Nuking what you have and as a byproduct nuking what your customers have is the easy way out. 

There may be one but I have never seen a case where a company goes all 2.0 on everyone and trashes 1.0.  Other than maybe new Coke for those of us old enough to remember that debacle.  ;)

images.jpg.77f71395e45408360a7d50d0d97769ed.jpg

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2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:
Quote

EN management has decided there is no viable way to continue to support the grown ecosystem of 5 independent platforms. What we know as „our“ EN is now vintage, still running but effectively abandoned.

Where did THIS come from? Is it Opinion or the gospel according to EN?

Quote

The „new“ EN has stepped into the light with the release of ver. 10. Soon Android will be added, completing the transition. This is the future for all EN users, like it or not. All new development will start from here, it is a true EN 2.0-moment.

Same - if it IS the official party line 

Quote

Like it or not????

then I suspect EN have just committed commercial suicide.

+ 1 more who has just cancelled their renewal.

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3 minutes ago, rob24hrs said:

+ 1 more who has just cancelled their renewal.

Have you seen the videos about the course EN will take ?

Have you read the blog posts from EN ?

Then you would probably not ask me from where my opinion is created.

I do not say, this is fact, because I could be I am misreading stuff. I do not say all is bad, in fact there are features in the new release I really like. And EN is still fresh in releasing and updating. So we see the first minutes of a film that may reach a happy ending.

What I say is there will be use cases better supported as before, use cases that are neutral - and abandoned use cases. Which is which can only be decided by the owner of the use case.

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5 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

Have you seen the videos about the course EN will take ?

Have you read the blog posts from EN ?

Then you would probably not ask me from where my opinion is created.

I do not say, this is fact, because I could be I am misreading stuff. I do not say all is bad, in fact there are features in the new release I really like. And EN is still fresh in releasing and updating. So we see the first minutes of a film that may reach a happy ending.

What I say is there will be use cases better supported as before, use cases that are neutral - and abandoned use cases. Which is which can only be decided by the owner of the use case.

Oddly EN is a tool I use as part of my life,so I do not spend my life reading everything EN publish online. I actually have a life.....

As a company SELLING a service EN had a few simple tasks to carry out and have had over a year to do so:

1. Make features available on one operating system available on all -=they have not.

2. Read their own forum and try and provide features requested by many over last ten years-=failed.

3. Retain existing features, some of which will have been reason some paying customers bought into system -=failed they have actually removed some features.

4. Give the people what they want not what EN THINK they want -=marketing disaster.

The Tsunami is about to hit......

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1 hour ago, rob24hrs said:

As a company SELLING a service EN had a few simple tasks to carry out and have had over a year to do so:

1. Make features available on one operating system available on all -=they have not.

2. Read their own forum and try and provide features requested by many over last ten years-=failed.

3. Retain existing features, some of which will have been reason some paying customers bought into system -=failed they have actually removed some features.

4. Give the people what they want not what EN THINK they want -=marketing disaster.

I'm fortunate to still be on Windows 7, and therefore not even eligible to join in the update/downgrade catastrophe. But I do think that, to be fair, and no matter how annoyed one is, you might explain what it is about task #1 that seems simple to you (my highlighting)! OSes rather like to be special and inimitable, which tends to limit cross-platform uniformity. Evernote 10 for Windows is a fumble, that seems clear, but I don't necessarily think they fumbled something easy.

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3 hours ago, Vstk said:

Software should be getting faster, fixing problems and bringing more functionnality to the user with new versions.

Well, that is just crazy talk.  I guess you haven't been with Evernote long 😃

Sorry, couldn't resist, but this does seem to be their norm.  I'll never understand why, but EN consistently shoots themselves in the foot when it comes to customer communication.  With Ian's development videos I was hopeful that would change, but I guess not.  Who releases a new software "update" that has major changes and removed function without first setting customer expectations?  A little transparency by Evernote to their existing customer base on the changes, before pushing out the new versions, should have been done.  I'm sure there are many customers out there that have "upgraded" and are now experiencing WTF moments of discovery.

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11 hours ago, s2sailor said:

I'll never understand why, but EN consistently shoots themselves in the foot when it comes to customer communication.  With Ian's development videos I was hopeful that would change, but I guess not.  Who releases a new software "update" that has major changes and removed function without first setting customer expectations?  A little transparency by Evernote to their existing customer base on the changes, before pushing out the new versions, should have been done.  I'm sure there are many customers out there that have "upgraded" and are now experiencing WTF moments of discovery.

I agree - setting customer expectations is huge. Looking at the announcement again, it all sounds marvellous:

ico-1.png Find it faster
Get the information you need, quicker than ever with our new, smarter search.
ico-2.png Your words, your way
Give shape to your ideas with more control over formatting and appearance.
ico-3.png Distraction-free note-taking
Keep the focus on your ideas thanks to a cleaner, more intuitive interface.
  New, stronger foundation
Enjoy peace of mind with background sync and automated app updates.

The reality:

Find it faster But it seems that they have drastically reduced the speed of search - it may be more intuitive, but it's slower. (Although at least when you search you are able to search the entire system not just the current notebook so that's a win).

Your words, your way I have far less control over formatting and appearance than I did before - there are some nice little extras in there, but the control I had has gone in order to make notes consistent (if I want that, then I will choose how *I* format them, not be forced into a limited subset of options by a developer).

Distraction-free note-taking Well perhaps, but they've still sacrificed precious screen real estate with a list of recent notes and shortcuts that makes it harder to find what I really want. I think the previous interface was pretty distraction free. Like the dark theme though.

New, stronger foundation I think they've done that, for sure, but at what cost? Background sync? We had that. What they MEAN is that they've removed any option to 'Sync Now'. Automated app updates? Previously, I got a message, I decided whether to update or skip that update. Peace of mind? Well, think that disappeared....along, of course, with my backup process that relied on ENscript.

 
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13 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

What I do not understand is why these releases are rushed out as if there is a strong deadline to be met.

Could it be related to polishing some performance parameter for the fiscal year?

Such a big release gets lots of attention and most reviews I read and watched seem to praise the new version (mostly nearly literal copies from the evernote release pages). I recently even saw it being discussed in a few major German newspapers, which is quite rare.

So I am pretty sure that this media coverage leads to a considerable amount of new users, even though the release is a disappointment for long timers.

Just my two cents, but this might be their strategy.

Best regards.

PS. I would be really interested in seeing a serious rewiew somewhere, where these issues are addressed. Up to now, the only place I found complaints are in this forum and on reddit. All the bigger productivity youtubers and blogs seem to join in the official evernote narrative about a great new era.

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20 minutes ago, Mike P said:

The self appointed productivity gurus hate mature products that just do what they are supposed to do. Nothing for them to write about or screencast about. Much better to have a pretty new app that does nothing of any substance  but has three days between new releases. Then every week they can get excited about how it now includes the ability to add commas or some other micro improvement.

This is so true, I literally just watched a vid on YouTube on the Keep Productive channel and it was almost just an advert for the new version, no critique at all or mention of the removal of ANY features.

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2 hours ago, DMiddleton said:

This is so true, I literally just watched a vid on YouTube on the Keep Productive channel and it was almost just an advert for the new version, no critique at all or mention of the removal of ANY features.

When this interview was recorded, the new release was not yet in the open.

But I agree: It was tame, it was by no way telling what was about to happen, and important questions were left waiting on the sideline.

What bothers me more is there is practically no communication from the top. The next clients are rolled out silently, one after the other, each one getting the same barrage of "feedback" as the versions before.

For me the important question is now how fast the bugs get fixed, and key missing functions released.

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Out of interest, anyone ever seen a trade video or interview where whoever was doing it actually understood the product.  Mostly pablum in my experiences.  🤷‍♂️

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1 hour ago, CalS said:

Out of interest, anyone ever seen a trade video or interview where whoever was doing it actually understood the product.  Mostly pablum in my experiences.  🤷‍♂️

No, I would not say so. There are some that really try to help and work out the essential issues. Or simply split a complex issue up into its pieces and work through one by one.

But it is true: They are buried under many more that just swim on a wave making "informed entertainment", or want to push products. Interestingly there was few Evernote-related content posted in the last 12 month - which is telling in itself.

I have a feeling this is going to change - but probably with titles like "Fed up with EN ? - want to move to XXX - here is how !". 

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2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

When this interview was recorded, the new release was not yet in the open.

Yeah, maybe he recorded it in advance, but he also says he was part of the beta so he must have been aware of the state of things, and he also did an interview with Ian Small days earlier so probably didn't want to be too negative about it.

 

2 hours ago, CalS said:

Out of interest, anyone ever seen a trade video or interview where whoever was doing it actually understood the product.  Mostly pablum in my experiences.  🤷‍♂️

Like you say most are, I would say with the exception of Marie Poulin who knows Notion inside out. But there do seem to be a LOT of 'Productivity Vloggers' nowadays who just seem to give overviews jumping on the bandwagon. 

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22 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

But I do think that, to be fair, and no matter how annoyed one is, you might explain what it is about task #1 that seems simple to you (my highlighting)! OSes rather like to be special and inimitable, which tends to limit cross-platform uniformity. ............ I don't necessarily think they fumbled something easy.

Should be simple ( ok lets called it less than a challenge) to a competent coding team who are familiar with EN.

If you want to service and overhaul a Jaguar you do not ask a team of apprentices who may have worked on fords to come along and remove the headlights and cruise control.....

Then tell owners the Highlights and cruise control were removed without seeking opinion or giving an explanation.

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On 10/8/2020 at 12:22 PM, basicchannel said:

All my notes look completely different now, that is thousands of days and daily logs all modified or corrupted. Why?

Can you say more about this? Are you saying that when you open an existing note in the new program, it automatically converts the fonts in the note to the new, limited font selection?? :o That would be truly appalling.

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