(Archived) jpeg into EN 780KB then out 688KB - why?

[Migs 0]

Friends:

I wonder why an image dragged into EN degrades in size. Ideally one should be able to extract exactly what was put in. For example: I drag into a new note a jpeg of 780KB and drag it back out (control click save as) the file is now 688KB.

I wish EN would respect the file.

Migs

[engberg 89]

Let me know if you can reproduce this reliably with a JPEG that you'd be willing to send to us. I'll contact you to receive it and test it. It works fine for all of my test images.

Thanks

[Migs 0]

And I thought I was smart! Every day you learn something new! -Migs

[jefito 5,589]

Ooooohhh... the CTO's showin' some geek-fu.

~Jeff

[engberg 89]

Computers are my forté.

[jbenson2 2,147]

Excellent sleuthing Dave!

[engberg 89]

With Louis's help, I was able to reproduce this on my machine. The results are extremely weird.

He sent me a ZIP file with a JPEG in it that expands into something that appears to be 536kB in the Finder, and the Unix 'du' command also reports that same size:

~/Downloads $ du -hs picShrinks.jpg
536K	picShrinks.jpg

If I drag it into Evernote and then drag it back out again, I get something that seems to be 444kB in the Finder and 'du':

~/Downloads $ du -hs draggedFromEvernote/picShrinks.jpg 
444K	draggedFromEvernote/picShrinks.jpg

BUT ... if I actually dig into the file a bit, it appears to be identical. And the Unix 'wc -c' command (which reports the number of bytes in the file) says the two are identical:

~/Downloads $ wc -c picShrinks.jpg draggedFromEvernote/picShrinks.jpg 
  453326 picShrinks.jpg
  453326 draggedFromEvernote/picShrinks.jpg

It turns out that the difference is hidden Mac file system metadata that the Mac is storing in a hidden place in the *folder*, not in the actual file itself:

~/Downloads $ unzip -l picShrinks.jpg.zip 
Archive:  picShrinks.jpg.zip
  Length     Date   Time    Name
 --------    ----   ----    ----
   453326  01-12-10 00:52   picShrinks.jpg
        0  09-11-10 17:58   __MACOSX/
    91006  01-12-10 00:52   __MACOSX/._picShrinks.jpg
 --------                   -------
   544332                   3 files

In every Mac folder on your system, there's a hidden ".DS_Store" file that contains Mac-specific information about the files and layout of that folder. It appears that if you use the Mac UI to zip a file, it will grab the relevant chunk from the .DS_Store file and hide it in a __MACOSX/ virtual folder within the ZIP file. Then, if you extract that on a Mac, it will stuff the magic information back into the .DS_Store file in the corresponding directory.

If, on the other hand, you try to use the file in any cross-platform context (like Evernote), this extra magic Mac file system metadata goes away, and you only see the original (real) file itself.

So ... TL;DR - Evernote will keep the real original JPEG when you add it to Evernote, but it won't preserve the special Mac-only file system metadata. I'm pretty sure you'd get the same result if you sent the file via web-based email, etc.

[RobLewis 26]

Here's a theory that, even if false, points up a significant issue:

I am regularly frustrated by software that simply discards metadata from photo files whenever it touches them. Yes, I'm looking at you, Preview (and many others). Is it possible that the original photo had a large chunk of metadata that was lost when EverNote saved the file? This would not, of course, change the actual image.

For those who are interested (and I hope you all are), the Metadata Working Group is defining a set of recommendations for handling metadata in consumer images. Please support them in convincing the industry that it's NOT OK to simply toss out metadata.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

I have one that always works (apparently)...

It's a picture of me...you guys can print it out and beautify your office.

Let me know how to send it to you.

(Who knows, you may even find yourself in one of the future EN vids!)

[Lougoose 0]

I have one that always works (apparently)...

It's a picture of me...you guys can print it out and beautify your office.

Let me know how to send it to you.

[Lougoose 0]

Interesting...I'm noticing the same behavior. Using a JPG image, went in 549 out 455. The behavior appears both before and after syncing. (doesn't matter when you drag the picture out).

jbenson2 - no, the image does not shrink a second time. Apparently whatever changes are happening only happen once.

[jbenson2 2,147]

I don't have a Mac, perhaps someone else could duplicate the problem.

I am curious - what happens if you take the smaller photo and run it through Evernote a 2nd time?

Your 1st pass took the photo from 780KB to 688KB.

Will the 2nd pass take it from 688KB to something smaller?

[Migs 0]

From the desktop. Simple drag in and drag out. Try it on a Mac w OS X 10.5.8

MIgs

[engberg 89]

Where did the original image come from? For example, were you dragging it from the Finder, or from something else?

[Migs 0]

Dragging to the desktop also yields 688KB. Smaller than original.

Migs

[engberg 89]

We should be preserving exactly the file that you put into Evernote.

Can you try dragging the image out of Evernote instead of using the Cmd-Click menu?

[jbenson2 2,147]

Hmmm, that is a perplexing issue.

I just tried it with Windows 7 / Evernote 3.5.6.2848 (98771) It went in at 858KB and came back out at 858KB.

To get the photo back out, I right-clicked on it and saved.

Is there any chance you opened the photo with some Apple software and then saved?