Jump to content
ab1kenobee

Looking For An Evernote Alternative .. Probably found the closest option

Recommended Posts

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I got more and more frustrated with the lack of integration in Windows (if you do not throw yourself into Office 365), so I switched to a Mac several month ago. My wife and I are using iDevices since a while, so it was a logical next step.

Things are working fine, and the seamlessness of the Apple environment is still breathtaking. But I stray a little ...

If looking for options for document and note organisation, it would probably be DevonThink, which works off a local database, including strong search and AI functions. But it is Mac-only. For handwritten note taking, my dream team is my iPad Pro with pencil, and GoodNotes 5. It makes handwriting (my handwriting as well ...) fully searchable. When my notes become static, I can export as pdf to EN, keeping the searchability feature. And as long as they are still regarded as active, GN 5 keeps them itself, allowing full search over all notebooks, among other features. But again, iOS and Mac only.

For me I simply stay on with EN, and my feeling is that they are moving ahead in the right direction currently. I do not want to be overwhelmed by feature-flooding, I expect solid performance and a cautious progress in the user interface that continues to support my work flows. And this is what I get.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks PinkElephant, I did indeed forget to mention DevonThink but I guess you answered it: it's Mac only. I'm not prepared to move platforms just for my note keeping habits - but thanks for adding that :D 

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, TechPerplexed said:

If anyone has any suggestions

These forums are supplied and paid for by Evernote for the discussion of their service/product     
I suggest you find a more appropriate forum to discuss your quest

One suggestion https://www.reddit.com/r/Evernote/

I've merged similar discussions for this topic

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, the usual suspects are already posting the usual replies. No wonder people consider this a toxic environment (not referring to you, PinkElephant!) I AM discussing Evernote and its service/product. In fact a quick count tells me I actually mentioned the word "Evernote" 22 times in my initial post here.

 Also, I had placed the poster above me on ignore years ago, so how come their post is now showing? Ah well, never mind... I shall ignore them the way they can't ignore me from now on ;) 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

How important it is to have the best running shoes in the world is when the lions are at your heels.

https://youtu.be/D-ie_aFsfb8

In a market driven economy competition is what drives improvement. For me one of the most important reasons to stay with EN is the possibility to leave, whenever I want and without any technical barriers. Because staying on should not only be driven by gravity, it should be a positive decision taken again and again. For this @TechPerplexed again thank you for sharing your experience.

If you read through it, where would be a better place to post it than here, in this forum ?

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

For me one of the most important reasons to stay with EN is the possibility to leave, whenever I want and without any technical barriers. Because staying on should not only be driven by gravity, it should be a positive decision taken again and again.

Exactly! Plus you want to feel "good" about the product, the company and even (to a much lesser degree but also not entirely unimportant) the community it attracts. For years I felt good about Evernote. I gladly paid $45 a year, even though at that time I didn't need to because the free product offered everything I needed as a light user.

It was only after they pulled several no-nos almost simultaneously that I lost the love, and with it the desire to stay loyal to a product I no longer believed in. Of course the worst offender being the very steep price hike without any apologies or improvements in return - but there was also this absolutely awful forum where you can't open your mouth with (I hope) constructive criticism without being blasted by the same few resident regulars who call your posts "boohoo" messages and other put downs. I read what you said above, @PinkElephant that you feel that Evernote is heading in the right direction and I desperately want to believe you - but what I SAW this past year is a new logo that looks exactly like the old one and another price hike.

As I said above, it is hard to believe that one man could create a product (Joplin) that almost matches Evernote that is a decade older and had hundreds of developers... I just can't imagine why it takes so long to implement a few improvements everyone seems to be asking for.

But then again it's refreshing to see posts like yours that offer an alternative viewpoint. and how knows in another 3 years I'll be posting here again having to eat my words about leaving :D 

Edit: merged with a topic from 2014? Seriously??? That is some crazy insane moderating right there... 🙄 But I guess it proves my point on the speed with which Evernote innovates its product that those ancient posts are still considered relevant today! 😛 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, TechPerplexed said:

And secretly of course I hope Evernote hears my plea and becomes what I consider awesome again so that I won't have to leave them after all :) 

Well, I hope that happens for you and your recap may help others. 

Off topic, I do not understand the compulsion folks seem to have to point out EN done them wrong when they exit stage left.  And, oh yeah, the attitude if you are in a camp other than mine don't bother responding because you be wrong.  Agrred there are some fanbois on this forum who seem to be stuck in a groove on a record and EN improvements of late are minimal (working the great cleanup).  Offset by those patrons who just can't believe how stupid EN is for not implementing the one true enhancement.  Creates an interesting dynamic.

IAC, interesting paradigm we've built since social media became prevalent, all this "sharing".  End of editorial.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, CalS said:

Well, I hope that happens for you and your recap may help others. 

Off topic, I do not understand the compulsion folks seem to have to point out EN done them wrong when they exit stage left. And, oh yeah, the attitude if you are in a camp other than mine don't bother responding because you be wrong.

In my own defence, I did not create the thread to point out to the world that Evernote has done me wrong. And the reason why I respectfully requested for the thread (MY thread, not this entire monstrosity) not to erupt in arguments was because I respect the fact that others may have a different viewpoint and all should be openly discussable (is that a word?)

It just so happens that some necromancer moderator merged the thread with one entirely different one (and almost six years old at that) just because it had a similar sounding title. I guess that when people with more than 17,000 posts are automatically given those type of privileges, common sense rules no longer necessarily prevail. I have never participated in a forum before where resurrecting ancient dead threads wasn't frowned upon, let alone enforced. I cannot be held responsible for things people said before me in a thread I knew nothing about.

That said, agree with you on almost every count :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, TechPerplexed said:

I guess that when people with more than 17,000 posts are automatically given those type of privileges,

I think it only takes 300 or so....  IAC, having any sort of not 100% agreement and walking away with a smile is a breath of fresh air!  :)

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, TechPerplexed said:

Ok I just HAVE to ask... what does IAC stand for? :D 

In Any Case, too much texting in my life I suppose.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, CalS said:

I think it only takes 300 or so (re: necromancer moderator)

300  for moderator,      
??? for necromancer (I like the title) 😊
 

@ab1kenobee might want to comment   image.gif.4a567d1f57ea859df16e4eb757f5207a.gif

Share this post


Link to post

 

5 minutes ago, CalS said:

In Any Case, too much texting in my life I suppose.

Thank you! Duh, so obvious once you know...

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post

Hahaha well to come back to what you said yesterday, about running shoes and lions at your heels, sometimes a little kitten can be dangerous too. I'm still toying with Joplin, and with a risk of sounding repetitive and boring, I find it absolutely incredible that one person has managed to create such a sound product. In terms of development time and resources the product should truly be just a kitten (or even mouse), yet it offers almost everything Evernote has. In random order:

  • Notebooks and sub-notebooks (unlimited nesting with Joplin)
  • Tags
  • Desktop and mobile apps (Joplin offers Linux + terminal in addition to Windows/Mac)
  • Device syncing (Joplin is self hosted in either Dropbox, OneDrive, NextCloud, WebDAV, etc)
  • Web clipping
  • Note importing
  • Note history (basically unlimited revisions with Joplin)
  • Attachments
  • Note sorting  
  • Notifications/reminders
  • Checklists
  • Note searching
  • Note exporting
  • Rock solid performance

Then Joplin adds some features that Evernote does NOT have:

  • Markdown as well as html source formatting
  • End to end encryption
  • External note editor
  • Free and open source, no paywall
  • A forum and bug tracker platform, both in which the developer actively participates

Of course there are a few things missing (and some of these I miss rather a lot):

  • Note merging
  • Import from folder
  • Visual representation of note list (thumbnails)
  • Inline PDF
  • OCR of PDF, handwriting and scans (plus search)
  • Trash can

For completeness' sake, Evernote has these features which I personally have no interest in but are missing in Joplin (or so I believe):

  • Emailing to note
  • Sharing/collaborating
  • Web client
  • Document scanning
  • Fully hosted by the company, no need to provide own cloud server
  • AI content suggestions (I personally hate that, but...)

Finally, though in awe with what he accomplished, it also scares me a little that it is a one person project. At least Evernote has a huge team and when one employee leaves, no one will notice. If the one Joplin dev falls away, the project stops dead turkey. Yes, I know someone can fork the source and continue to develop/support, but there are no guarantees that this will actually happen.

And so ends 2019... with lots to contemplate and decide in the coming year :)

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post

When we got married first thing I did was kicked my husband out of the kitchen, so that is a non issue here :D All jokes aside, that is why I included the missing features that I personally am not interested in, but obviously for others such a thing would be a dealbreaker.

To me, the biggest potential dealbreaker could be the missing visual clues (thumbnails, PDF preview).

Still, my money is on that single Joplin dev adding the feature before Evernote adds any of the missing ones! 😁

Here is where Evernote is definitely the prettier one. Joplin:

J.jpg.adb6ded2fc9e8b89448b18f8b0c03fb3.jpg 

vs Evernote:

2.thumb.jpg.de3143bbc7ff68c77f692a9c11d0bd50.jpg

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Hope your single dev is not playing the lottery, and hits the jackpot. That folks sometimes fall off the world is why I try to avoid single issue single person software, at least for all relevant tasks. The one or other small helper program is o.k., but not my central file & find for my docs and ideas.

Share this post


Link to post

"YOUR" single dev? Now, now, tsk tsk, let's not resort to that type of dialogue :D

But seriously, you bring up an excellent point of course. I seem to recall that this is almost the single most asked question in this very forum... "what if Evernote goes belly up?" And as a regular, you also know the answer that is INVARIABLY given (and I paraphrase) "that is a non issue, because the data is portable".

With Joplin, your data is equally exportable. Even then, I could choose not to move away and continue with the current version. The app is mine and even if the developer packs it in, no one will uninstall it from my computer. It just wouldn't be updated - unless (worst case) I fork the Github project and learn the ins and outs myself. Best case, someone who is a skilled programmer would pick up the pieces and further develop the product.

The data is mine. Again, the developer disappearing won't make my notes vanish. They're still there - offline on my PC, offline on my Android AND online in Dropbox (encrypted).

The only guarantee we DON'T have is further updates from that developer who won the lottery, but then again, we don't have the guarantee that Evernote will continue to develop either. If I were to be facetious, I could bring up the fact that Evernote has seemingly been stagnant for years (I still hate the editor), almost the opposite of innovation.

Still, it's arguments like these that make folk think and decide what is best for them. As you may recall, it's the very reason that I instantly dismissed Zoho because my notes are NOT portable, nor offline. So thank you for bringing it up and forcing me to think :)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

This has been a fun and insightful thread. I accidentally stumbled into it while searching for something Linux related. Don't even remember what it was at this point. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Haha ..this thread is still active.

I have been actively testing quite a few evernote alternatives and posting here may be 2 or 3 years back.

Since then I settled with Notion.so, Still have a premium subscription for evernote though. [ I just forgot to cancel it. may be cancel next year]

Happy New Year Guys.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, newbi said:

Haha ..this thread is still active.

Not by choice :)

Still happy with Joplin - will post some additional insights in the coming weeks - and also my final decision whether I moved across or not, which at this point is not yet a given. I have given up on Notion though, since I found it sort of hard to make friends with the block based approach. I blame it on the simplicity of my brain :D

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post

Well, I made my decision. Without further ado, let me tell you who the winner is: Joplin. Yes, after more than twelve years of using Evernote (eight of which as a pro user), I have finally found the alternative I was looking for.

This was not an easy choice, and hopefully my list of pros and cons may help others choose if Evernote is still the app they prefer, or if they feel (like I do) that it's getting too expensive and too long in the tooth, with no clear path to future improvements - other than vague promises.

Evernote

Pros:

  • Established company, not likely to abandon the product altogether.
  • No need to set up a sync service, everything is stored on Evernote servers.
  • Apps look slightly more polished.
  • Inline PDF and note thumbnails in the note list (visually more attractive, easier to find content by browsing).
  • Due to Evernote's popularity, most other applications offer ENEX import.

Cons:

  • No significant innovation for several years now.
  • Awful editor that hasn't noticeably improved in well over a decade (proof in point: this merged thread is from 2014 and the first page mentions the very basic editor that hasn't been improved upon since 2007 - it's 2020 in some areas now).
  • Sudden price hikes with nothing visible in return.
  • No encryption, employees and bots are able to view your content at will.
  • Stale community without any meaningful company input.
  • Dedicated ideas forum section of which exactly none have been implemented, despite some having thousands of votes/replies.
  • Main 2019 innovations: logo went from green to white, price hike, repeat of 20xx-2018 promises of "doing better soon". What are those 250 employees busy with all day long?

Joplin

Pros:

  • On par with the Evernote app which is more than a decade older and had hundreds more employees work on it.
  • Actively maintained and supported, with continuous interacting between the developers and its lively community.
  • FREE (donation based really).
  • Rock solid performance, redundant failsafe measures for lost content.
  • App available for Mac, Windows, iOS, Linux, Android, web.
  • Unlimited nested notebooks/subnotebooks in addition to tags.
  • Steadily improved and new features added since the initial release three years ago. The past year alone: note history, (dark) themes, note count, math equations, export to markdown/html/PDF, sidebar column resizing, full text search, external editor support, and a web clipper... with no indication of slowing down just yet (another beta with additional features just came out yesterday). Pipeline: automatic (incremental) backups, emailing of notes, note sharing, wysiwyg editor.
  • Seamlessly switch between markdown or html, depending on the content.
  • The developer(s) actually LISTEN to the users - and come back with clear answers (ranging from "no, this is not planned any time soon but feel free to request/create a plug-in" to "sure, great idea, keep an eye on this space").
  • Full control over your content, since it's 100% self hosted on your own cloud service of choice.
  • End to end encryption, nobody has access to your content but you.
  • ALL your data is stored by YOU, so even if the developer(s) stop with the project, no content is lost including the ability to sync.
  • All notes including attachments are fully exportable in several formats, including markdown, html and PDF. No worries about being locked in!
  • Open source, so it's possible to add the features you need/want with coding skills.
  • Surprisingly, the web clipper is better than the Evernote one.

Cons:

  • Currently only one active core developer - if he falls away, the project might stall from further updates/improvements.
  • The markdown editor with separate view feels a little "geeky".
  • No merging of notes (other than copy/paste).
  • No undo of editing on Android - yet (but devs are aware of it and looking for solutions).
  • No attachments larger than 10MB supported on Android yet (but devs are actively seeking a solution).

Final words

Although I didn't plan to make my choice this soon, it felt right to start the new decade with a new product. So, after much consideration, I just cancelled my renewal to Evernote... which felt a bit final but what it really means is that I have eleven months left to change my mind :) Well, I am pretty sure won't happen (but if it does, I promise to report that here). If you don't hear from me again (collective sigh of relief), you can safely conclude that I found my "permanent forever app" in Joplin.

I wish you guys all the best and who knows, till we meet again!

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post

Hey, that's a really great review of Joplin. Best I've seen. The program seems to have a dedicated group of followers growing by the day. Could be the future of note taking, who knows? My search has ended – the EN Web's beta interface solves just about all of the problems I was having using it on Linux – but definitely keeping this review on hand in case my search for an alternative resumes somewhere down the road. Good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to put all that together.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, TechPerplexed said:

Awful editor that hasn't noticeably improved in well over a decade (proof in point: this merged thread is from 2014 and the first page mentions the very basic editor that hasn't been improved upon since 2007 - it's 2020 in some areas now).

imho  Awful and Basic are not the same thing
Yes, Evernote provides a Note editor supporting basic features
However, it's a wysiwyg html editor, that I haven't been able to replace

Evernote (and Joplin) support attachments of a any file format
This allows us to use any editor we chose.  I use Apple Pages for word processing, and Apple Numbers for spreadsheets

>>No encryption, employees and bots are able to view your content at will

i'd like to see full end-to-end encryption; even though it may disable the text search feature
Currently, I'm using encrypted attachments for my sensitive data

>>Seamlessly switch between markdown or html, depending on the content.

I'm not a regular markdown/html user but I know some users have requested this    
My inner geek appreciates Joplin's two panel display (code/displayj

>>ALL your data is stored by YOU

As a Mac user, I have a full copy of my Evernote data; native and html backups
Android/iOS users don't have this option

>>No worries about being locked in!

I have no worries regarding my Evernote data "being locked in"

>>permanent forever app

I don't think this is possible in this ever-changing tech world
I'm always prepared to switch when necessary

>>Evernote Pros:...Cons:...

Somewhat biased, one sided, incomplete; but thanks for attempting to list Evernote pros

>>Well, I made my decision. Without further ado, let me tell you who the winner is: Joplin. Yes, after more than twelve years of using Evernote (eight of which as a pro user), I have finally found the alternative I was looking for.

Thanks for posting the analysis and good luck
I'll keep an eye on Joplin's progress and suitability as an alternative

Share this post


Link to post

Well, @TechPerplexed, I can't speak for everyone in our stale little community, but I guess I hope Joplin works out well for you. I use two other programs that are also the work of one core developer with a small staff, and have close relationships with their users: the research word processor Nota Bene and the research/organizer/drafting tool Scrivener. Both are excellent products. So I know that such products can be fun and reliable tools to use, and can build real, sometimes surprisingly close-knit user communities. And can take for-e-e-ever to complete major updates. Beyond that, a few speculative thoughts:

The fact that Joplin has added so much in the past year may be as much an indication of where it started as of where it's going. I don't know, just sayin'. The fact that it's free/donation based leads me to the observation that people in these forums frequently b... I mean, complain about two contradictory things: the high price of Evernote, and its unsustainable finances. Basically, many Evernote users want it to be free, have no ads or access to their personal data, and develop new features rapidly into the limitless future. Perhaps Joplin's users are more realistic, or more willing to pony up voluntarily. What's the list of software companies that have run on a donation basis over a long term?

Joplin, if I understand you rightly, syncs notes/data among the available OS platforms, but lets users choose and pay for their own cloud service to perform this. Not maintaining (or renting) servers helps explain how it can operate with no definite revenue stream. But when things do go wrong (things will go wrong; it's computers), that leaves the user at the mercy of support from Google, Dropbox, Microsoft, etc., correct? None of whom will feel a particular obligation to get your notes synced right on a service they know nothing about. Scrivener works, in a limited way, on similar lines. They have a standing recommendation to use Dropbox and avoid Google, and they (plus their online user community) do have to help people sort out data losses due to cloud service problems.

29 minutes ago, TechPerplexed said:
  • No significant innovation for several years now.
  • Awful editor that hasn't noticeably improved in well over a decade (proof in point: this merged thread is from 2014 and the first page mentions the very basic editor that hasn't been improved upon since 2007 - it's 2020 in some areas now).

Don't know if you've looked at the Evernote videos that have been posted recently outlining the changes and improvements to the editor currently in process, including unifying (or at least regularizing) the user experience across platforms. I hope you'll poke into Evernote as your subscription runs its course just to see how things improve. I'd be interested in your observations in comparison to Joplin (not necessarily in this thread, though!).

32 minutes ago, TechPerplexed said:

No encryption, employees and bots are able to view your content at will.

Lots of people worry about this, but I haven't yet seen a documented case of it actually happening. Please post if you have. Every clerk at a convenience store could steal your credit card info if they wanted to, but generally speaking, they don't. Human nature, huh?

So, not meaning to be a dumper of cold water. Good luck! A few years ago I had never heard of Evernote, and now it is deeply woven into my work and life. So I suppose the same could be said of me and Joplin some day.

Share this post


Link to post

Eh, this is just a friendly discussion, so thanks for all that @Dave-in-Decatur :) I don't feel it's my "duty" to defend Joplin, so I fully respect your reservations about it without offering any counter arguments in return. What is important for one, is definitely not a priority for another and vice versa.

Having my data safe is EXTREMELY important to me, so I definitely make sure I create regular backups as well as make sure it actually syncs, but personally I don't feel that Joplin is any less reliable than Evernote in that regard. Still, those are valid concerns so I felt (hope) that I left an honest pro/con list for both products so people can make up their mind.

As for Evernote's improved editor - I shall believe it when I see it, and yes I will probably keep an eye on the (lack of?) developments in that regard :D 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

@TechPerplexedNever tell a Traveller you would not walk his way. I wish you luck for the new year.

Maybe you can come back one day and tell how things are working out.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks @PinkElephant :) Let's say "until we meet again" then. Just because I'm trading the seemingly sleeping elephant for a recently roaring mouse doesn't mean things are permanent. Or that I can't check in and report back some day. And everybody, thanks for the insights and critical notes (no pun intended) :D - it certainly helped with the decision making process.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Almost two months in and as promised, reporting back. Still very happy with Joplin - I am using it on Windows 10 and my Note 10+ (just upgraded from Note 4), and syncing through Dropbox. All without issues or glitches - so far. My gauge for trying new apps is how desperately I want to revert back to Evernote. With OneNote that took 3 minutes, Notion 1 day, Zoho a few days, etc.

With Joplin, I haven't felt the urge to return to Evernote at all yet, which probably says it is truly an alternative that seems to tick all the boxes (for me!! as we discussed before, others may definitely have other needs).

Things I enjoy very much:

  • Almost one click export of my entire note collection (unlike Evernote where you need to select notebook by notebook unless you don't care about preserving the structure).
  • Open source spirit in the community, which I personally enjoy more than the Evernote predominant culture of "it works for me, therefore you are wrong" (ok I exaggerate a little there, but... well.... not entirely off the mark either haha).
  • The more I get used to Markdown, the more I'm enjoying it. I love the total freedom of making the note tow the line how I want it!
  • Multiple level notebooks. Oh gosh how I love those... it gave me a whole new leash on organizing my collections.
  • It works "just like Evernote" in many ways, and since Evernote is a great app, that means Joplin is great too :D

Things I wish were better:

  • Inline PDF and OCR... though apparently those are going to be worked on "someday", as of NOW Joplin doesn't offer them - and I still miss them (I believe I mention this in just about every post, heh).
  • Although the app is very snappy on all my devices, there is no way you can quickly scroll through long notes in Android due to the "instant save" feature.
  • There is no undo in Android. In combination with the instant save, that makes editing in Android a rather scary affair. Sure, you can revert back to an older version of the note, but still... not convenient!
  • There is a limit of 10MB in attachments on Android. Although you can still store bigger attachments in the desktop and use them there, I can't open them on my phone. I haven't missed it yet, but... it's still an inconvenience the moment I DO need to view it.
  • I wish it were possible to color code notes or sections... which would make Joplin a decidedly "happier" app to use.

None of the above are deal breakers, so I guess I found my "forever-until-a-better-one-comes-out" note taking app. I might report back later this year, especially if things change (for the better or worse) AND will keep an eye on Evernote developments. Though in all truth, I can't see me going back to EN... but never say never!

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, TechPerplexed said:

There is no undo in Android. In combination with the instant save, that makes editing in Android a rather scary affair. Sure, you can revert back to an older version of the note, but still... not convenient!

Glad you're finding the experiment successful so far. I just want to comment on this one thing--not really in reply to you, but it made me think about the number of complaints in the Evernote Android forum (and others) about how there's no autosave, they lose data because they don't remember to save it, etc., etc. I'm guessing there's hardly a single feature of any note-taking app that isn't somebody's dream and somebody's nightmare. And hence this forum.... :D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Hello, @TechPerplexed:

I appreciate your notes and updates.

Gmail and EN are my 2 softwares I use every day... all through the day.

Having been a Software Eval Consultant... I conclude that EN has done too little over too much time to listen and implement User base improvement recommendations (incl. bug reports)... therefore I am going to take a serious look at Joplin based on your substantive comments.

THX.  ~ Alan

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/6/2020 at 9:56 AM, TechPerplexed said:

Still very happy with Joplin ... how desperately I want to revert back to Evernote.

Just curious - is there a workflow for converting back to Evernote; as in exporting your data from Joplin

>>The more I get used to Markdown, the more I'm enjoying it. I love the total freedom of making the note tow the line how I want it!

Also an html option - even more freedom
Also an external editor option

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/22/2019 at 7:59 PM, PinkElephant said:

My wife would probably send me to hell if I would stop to use our shared recipes notebook ...

Not really relevant with your extremely interesting discussion but I found Paprika 3 app to be doing so much better than Evernote in clipping recipes!  

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the tip, but clipping recipes is only a fraction of what I do on EN.

Usually clipping works fine, except on some food blogs that do everything to garble up their web sites to make clipping a nightmare. At least this is my impression - maybe their wordpress themes are constructed to get this done; clicks are money.

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Usually clipping works fine, except on some food blogs that do everything to garble up their web sites to make clipping a nightmare. At least this is my impression - maybe their wordpress themes are constructed to get this done; clicks are money.

Oh, I feel your pain. My wife has had me print out recipes she finds online (she's not interested in a digital notebook), and "nightmare" is the right word to describe what happens on some of these sites. I have to copy into Word and massage the formatting there. 😠

However, I've discovered that the Evernote Web beta can now do some pretty good tricks on malformed Web clips. I haven't tried that with recipes yet, but you might want to check it out (see my post linked below).

Oh wait ... sorry for the thread drift. This thread is about how Evernote is no good for anything.:D

 

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks - but if it does not clip, it is probably not worth cooking.

Who takes that little care about formatting probably is quite off in his cooking instructions as well 😉

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

except on some food blogs that do everything to garble up their web sites to make clipping a nightmare

Not just food blogs; I've experienced "garble" with various web sites
We're taking sophisticated web formatting, converting it to Evernote's enml format, and viewing in Evernote's version of a web browser - what could possibly go wrong

For a more solid solution, I've been capturing web pages in web-archive format, stored in Evernote as an attachment, and viewed using the Safari web browser
I've also successfully captured web page information using screenshots

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Thanks - but if it does not clip, it is probably not worth cooking.

Who takes that little care about formatting probably is quite off in his cooking instructions as well 😉

Yeah, I'll try that one on my wife. :o I don't think she'll be impressed.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Who takes that little care about formatting probably is quite off in his cooking instructions as well 😉

Can cooks code competently?  Maybe the worse the format the better the recipe?  ;)

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post

Hmm, I thought I had left a reply the other day, but I don't see it anywhere now. Here's another attempt :) 

Thread drift: if you don't mind, then neither do I. This long thread is all over the road anyway, so let's go for it... we're all just socializing right? :D 

Joplin: I'm definitely not trying to sway people to other apps... but if you decide to switch to something else, don't look at me if that results in any loss of notes, time, peace of mind or hair. Just saying :D

Recipes: my friend raves about an app named AnyList. He uses it to share shopping lists with his wife, and according to him you can clip recipes without all the "fluff" that so many sites seem to add ("my recipe was handed down from my great grandma and it was always the highlight of any church picnic," blah blah blah). No idea myself though because I personally prefer to use "one app for all", but it might be worth looking into for the recipe buffs around here ;) 

Web clipping: In addition to the usual simplified, full page, selection, url and screenshot, Joplin offers one additional feature and that is "original html". I have tried it and it sure renders the page in the original format as close as, erm, the original format, but I'm not really sure how useful this is. For starters you can forget about editing anything, because we all know what a mess html/css is behind the scenes so good luck finding that blurb you want to edit. But worse than that, I believe that it takes the css and images from the original clipped site - so if ever that site disappears, so do your images and layout. I'd rather have an "uglier" (more basic) version of the page of which I know it'll still look the same 10 years down the road!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Joplin is, unfortunately, extremely limited on iOS.

  • Joplin is not registered in the iOS “Share to...” functionality, so any additions of attachments or photos must be initiated from inside Joplin. I.e. can’t take a screenshot of a web page and send it to Joplin. Instead you have to save it, switch to Joplin, and add it from there.
  • You can’t export any of your notes in any format other than plaintext with markdown. All images and attachments are lost and formatting only works if the recipient is using a markdown reader. This is not an issue if you don’t send your notes to other people from your iOS device. 
  • There’s a “read” mode and an “edit” mode. In the edit mode, you’re working with Markdown, meaning that all images become text. I often annotate photos and screenshots, which is a bit hard to do if you don’t see them.
  • I am a heavy user of tables for arranging info and attachments. In Joplin, you can only create tables via typing Markdown code, which only becomes a table once you switch from Edit to Read. I want to write a note, not to code it. Markdown tables are a joke, especially when you want to rearrange them.
  • There’s an attachment upload limit of 10mb on mobile. 

It’s an interesting project, and probably fine for desktop use. But I am very heavily dependent on iOS and Joplin is just too underwhelming there.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I've been an avid evernote user for quite a while. Today, I did this Google search "what note tools are better than evernote".

I found some promising alternatives I will be trying over the next weeks.

When a company gets so complacent that they don't improve and innovate like they did when they had their peppy startup spirit, that's the beginning of the end. That point has come and passed a while ago for Evernote.

You have to work hard at staying relevant.

One of two things will happen: Evernote gets their act together and works on innovating and improving all versions of their product (Windows, Mac, iOS) with equal energy and with care to what their loyal users are clamoring for and for what they don't even yet realize they need, or they are disrupted by a lean startup that was able to muster the wherewithal to exploit the lumbering pace and cripple giant, stealing it's userbase.

If there was a booky setting bets for which, I'd put a weeks wages on the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Alex Vineyard said:

I found some promising alternatives I will be trying over the next weeks.

I merged your post with an ongoing discussion

If you find a product that works better for you, you should switch    
For myself, Evernote continues to be the best solution to my requirements  

>>LOL. Merged with a post that was created 6 years ago. I am not surprised. This further proves my point.

Not clear what point   
Users have been complaining about Evernote features from the beginning, and predicting Evernote's failure (LOL)
I repeat my point; if Evernote isn't working for us, don't use it

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

LOL. Merged with a post that was created 6 years ago. I am not surprised. This further proves my point. Non employed moderators should leave this forum alone so the rot among their userbase is more obvious to the company.

I work at a company of over a thousand employees, and every year or two I implement a new solution company wide. I had hoped Evernote might be one, but sadly it is now crossed off the list of possibilities.

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/22/2019 at 12:05 AM, PinkElephant said:

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I got more and more frustrated with the lack of integration in Windows (if you do not throw yourself into Office 365), so I switched to a Mac several month ago. My wife and I are using iDevices since a while, so it was a logical next step.

Things are working fine, and the seamlessness of the Apple environment is still breathtaking. But I stray a little ...

If looking for options for document and note organisation, it would probably be DevonThink, which works off a local database, including strong search and AI functions. But it is Mac-only. For handwritten note taking, my dream team is my iPad Pro with pencil, and GoodNotes 5. It makes handwriting (my handwriting as well ...) fully searchable. When my notes become static, I can export as pdf to EN, keeping the searchability feature. And as long as they are still regarded as active, GN 5 keeps them itself, allowing full search over all notebooks, among other features. But again, iOS and Mac only.

For me I simply stay on with EN, and my feeling is that they are moving ahead in the right direction currently. I do not want to be overwhelmed by feature-flooding, I expect solid performance and a cautious progress in the user interface that continues to support my work flows. And this is what I get.

I'm using DevonThink since two years now, main reason is I'm not allowed to store any business data on a 3rd party cloud. I decided then to leave Evernote for my personal stuff, too. Well, after two years I'm currently migrating my personal stuff back to Evernote 🤪. Devonthink is great on Computer-only workplaces, full feature set available there incl. RTF text editor available, etc.

Using on mobile devices it's no fun - at least for me. I don't need a super complex file storage system - I'm looking for a nice-notes, nice-checkmarks, nice-reminders, nice-camera, nice-Tags, super-efficient tool that provides those features on iOS as well.. It's a week now back on Evernote and I'm blown away to see how smooth, fast and reliable it works (OCR, sync, off/on-line). It has it's "rough edges", sure, but these are minor issues. So, there is a Premium user back, incl. Filterize automation & tag hierarchy system. Love it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Contented Joplin user here... reading through the past few months of comments in this thread was amusing. Casting FUD over using Google Drive and Dropbox was interesting... in light of Evernote's reliance on their own servers. Besides, even of Dropbox fell off the face of the Earth, your Notes would be secure locally. In my case, my local server is used to sync my devices to Joplin's Android app.

I haven't touched Evernote for over 6 months. It's wonderful to control where your personal notes reside, and know that they are transportable to any markdown or hypertext software tool.

I'm sure there's a place somewhere for Evernote, but it offers no benefit to me.

Yes Joplin doesn't show inline PDFs, but that was little value to me as in Evernote their screen real estate was limited, and I had to launch the native PDF viewer to effectively read and search. Video clipping/embedding holds little value to me. A video link generally meets my needs, and where it doesn't, I download the video.

IMO Evernote has grown old and stale, complacent in its first to market position. Good luck all.

Share this post


Link to post

Had some time on my hands so gave Joplin a 30 minute spin.  My takeaway is you REALLY have to like markdown to use it and the two panel set up.  Perhaps I didn't give it enough time but it seemed it would take me forever to get anything done.  Probably a use case thing as well, I don't have that many what I would call notes in the classic sense.  So hyper contolling format not that much of an interest.  The little formatting I do is with color and that doesn't exist in Joplin best I could tell.  At least not with a couple of mouse clicks.  Horses for courses.

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/4/2020 at 11:11 AM, ExNihilo said:

It's wonderful to control where your personal notes reside, and know that they are transportable to any markdown or hypertext software tool.

I also like a local copy of my data - Evernote/Mac stores a full Data copy locally
The notes are "transportable" to html format; readable by any web browser app
- I execute a weekly full export as part of my backups

>>markdown or hypertext software tool
I'm not a markdown fan; I prefer html
disclaimer - I use wysiwyg editors and rarely work with the raw formats

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

I'm sure there's a place somewhere for Evernote, but it offers no benefit to me.

Ah, but it does: it pays for a forum where you can come in and low-rate it to your heart's content. :)

As for little moi, I can't imagine wanting to learn to use markdown to take notes. Evernote's editors definitely need work (which they're doing; have you looked at the current Web beta?), but at least you can use them the first minute you see them without having to learn a new typing system. IOW, I am in that place for Evernote. Wherever it may be that I am.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't understand the advantage of Markdown. It is not 1980s that we need to work with text files.

WYSIWYG formats like RTF are readable by almost any word processor and you can even include tables, images etc. without being locked to any proprietary format. In fact RTF files are actually ASCII. 

Even DOCX format is almost universal now. 

My empirical observation is that Mac users are inclined to Markdown compared to Windows users. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Vidalia said:

I don't understand the advantage of Markdown.

I understand the advantages of markdown   
                 and the advantages of html    
                 and the advantages of a wysiwyg editor
I don't understand why markdown people are using the Evernote wysiwyg editor  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I've said this before. In the times when every cloud provider has indexed search and image OCR, and there's plenty of standalone apps like DocFetcher for those concerned with privacy, using a dedicated, proprietary wrapper for your data (be it Evernote, Onenote, Joplin etc.) does not make sense… at least to me.

 

90% of my data is in file folders on Onedrive (only using it because I am paying for Office365). 5% of the data I consider sensitive is in an encrypted volume with its own encrypted search index. The remaining 5% are short-term notes - and here's where programs like Evernote or Onenote come in handy. 

With generous use of plaintext tags, and common file formats (docx, xlsx, pdf) I can get most of functionality of Evernote (some is missing, some is gained) without ever having to worry about losing access, losing service, moving to another service, backups, sharing with others, encryption, compatibility, etc. Evernote / Onenote / whatever are great for capturing data and maintaining "live" notes, but for long term storage, it is exported into an indexed online folder as a common file type.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/9/2020 at 7:35 AM, Wanderling Reborn said:

for long term storage, it is exported into an indexed online folder 

I maintain an Evernote data backup on a cloud drive (export in html format)
It's somewhat functionable

>>I can get most of functionality of Evernote (some is missing, some is gained)

I see no gain; just missing functionality   
edit: The search index can be superior in the exported data compared to Evernote   
         I often switch to search in my data backup

>>as a common file type

Still wondering which "common file type" to use    
I currently use html for notes,    
but attachments retain their native formats

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, DTLow said:


 

Quote

>>I can get most of functionality of Evernote (some is missing, some is gained)

I see no gain; just missing functionality

 

You don't see the gain in using common file types like spreadsheets directly without an external wrapper? Like, the ability to directly edit and mark up without having to undergo multiple steps? Real time collaboration on same document ? (Works great with OneDrive). Quickly sharing files? All of this while using multiple devices on multiple platforms (W10, Linux, Mac, iOS)? Saving notes / data in native format? Moving from one service to another without any modification whatsoever?

6 hours ago, DTLow said:

>>as a common file type

Quote

Still wondering which "common file type" to use    
I currently use html for notes,    
but attachments retain their native formats

 

You must not be sharing notes and records with others too much :)

By "common" I mean PDF, XLSX, DOCX, JPEG, PNG, TXT.

Webpages are confusing to many people when used as documents.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

You must not be sharing notes and records with others too much :)

Personally I just share a link to an Evernote.  Doesn't matter (usually) what OS or device my sharee may choose to use to view the link,  it's always visible...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

You must not be sharing notes and records with others too much :)

I share "notes and records" using

  1. Evernote's shared notebooks
  2. Evernote's public URL
  3. links to network files in Evernote notes

>>Webpages are confusing to many people when used as documents.

I don't use web pages as documents,    
but find it useful when web pages contain embedded links to document files

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/4/2020 at 3:40 PM, DTLow said:

I also like a local copy of my data - Evernote/Mac stores a full Data copy locally

Hope you're not too tied to this particular feature...

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Paul A. said:

Hope you're not too tied to this particular feature...

No, local data is not a must have feature;    
this internet thing seems to be working 🙂

However, a data export feature is a top requirement   
I need to maintain my own data backup; and have an exit option

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, DTLow said:

No, local data is not a must have feature;    
this internet thing seems to be working 🙂

However, a data export feature is a top requirement   
I need to maintain my own data backups; and have an exit option

I agree. Information lock-in is a non-starter.

Share this post


Link to post

Take a look at notebookapp.com. ( Not affiliate) I think it is a viable EN alternative on Apple Eco system at least. I am running it in parallel to EN at moment. If EN do not sort out this nonesense ( before the acolytes leap in - refusing to to respond to concerns/request for manual sorting /merge on IOS etc) before I am due to renew, I will be leaving EN.

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, rob24hrs said:

refusing to to respond to concerns/request for manual sorting /merge on IOS

Only comment would be that in 10 years or so on this forum Evernote have very rarely responded to anything.  It's a User discussion forum to share experiences and suggestions.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Evernote have very rarely responded to anything.  

Which will be their downfall.

User experience= I feel ignored.

Suggestions= Try Notebooks App.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, rob24hrs said:

Suggestions= Try Notebooks App.

Took a quick look.  Looks good for note taking, thought organizing.  Not sure how it would fare in my paperless and second brain use case.  But that's why there are a myriad of software products out there.  We get to pick what works best for ourselves, with or without drama as is our predilection.

Share this post


Link to post
23 hours ago, Paul A. said:

Hope you're not too tied to this particular feature...

Local data stores are not going away.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Metrodon said:

Local data stores are not going away.

Oh I'm aware that some kind of local data caching will remain, but will the heavy users be able to continue keeping their 25GB+ database 100% synced using the new client? Color me skeptical, but perhaps you know something I don't.

Share this post


Link to post
36 minutes ago, Paul A. said:

Oh I'm aware that some kind of local data caching will remain, but will the heavy users be able to continue keeping their 25GB+ database 100% synced using the new client? Color me skeptical, but perhaps you know something I don't.

I've seen nothing to indicate that they won't.

The preview team have said that local storage will be supported, I've seen nothing contrary to that unless I count your scepticism and guessing.

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/14/2020 at 5:02 PM, Metrodon said:

I've seen nothing to indicate that they won't.

The preview team have said that local storage will be supported, I've seen nothing contrary to that unless I count your scepticism and guessing.

I'll be impressed if they pull it off. I've not heard of any other app capable of storing so much data using an Electron framework. Seems like they'll be pushing web technologies to their limits, but good for them if they can make it work at a high level of performance/quality.

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Paul A. said:

I'll be impressed if they pull it off. I've not heard of any other app capable of storing so much data using an Electron framework. Seems like they'll be pushing web technologies to their limits, but good for them if they can make it work at a high level of performance/quality.

 

Get yourself on the preview and give it a go - the NDA prevents anyone from saying anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Metrodon said:

 

Get yourself on the preview and give it a go - the NDA prevents anyone from saying anything else.

Believe me, I'm trying, but they don't seem to want me so far... 😂

Share this post


Link to post

Just an observation,  but if anyone is looking for a Dark mode it seems like the latest incarnation of the Edge browser can now show any web page (including,  presumably Evernote) in its own Dark Mode.  Just saw that information online (so of course it must be true...)  Haven't tried it out yet.  Newly Chrome-based Edge seems like a reasonable browser - and no doubt if it's possible in Chrome,  Dark Mode will be appearing in other browsers near you soon.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, gazumped said:

Just an observation,  but if anyone is looking for a Dark mode it seems like the latest incarnation of the Edge browser can now show any web page (including,  presumably Evernote) in its own Dark Mode.

Nope as far as my quick test just now.  :(

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
17 hours ago, CalS said:

Nope as far as my quick test just now.  :(

Hmmn. Maybe being rolled out then.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...