Evernote Blog - Looking Ahead: Evernote’s Priorities for 2019

[DTLow 5,736]

https://evernote.com/blog/looking-ahead-evernotes-priorities-2019/

[s2sailor 2,183]

Nice goals, but we have heard this before ... here's hoping the new guy can pull it off.

[jefito 5,589]

Short form:

1. The company is financially healthy
2. Improving reliability/stability/consistency/performance should be prioritized over new features

I can get behind that.

But read it anyways. Good luck, Evernote -- we're counting on you!!

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I agree with jefito. It’d be difficult not to get behind a goal of improving existing stuff. Best of luck to Evernote and its new CEO in 2019. For those of us that have been here since the beginning—over a decade now—it’d be really exciting to see the app finally fulfill its potential.

[gazumped 11,652]

That's definitely the talk - now lets see the walk...

[gazumped 11,652]

Please don't post personal comments...

 

[DTLow 5,736]

On 1/4/2019 at 6:09 AM, dixonbruce said:

So you’re still denying (I think) that problems exist, even after the company’s CEO has admitted as much.

I made no such comment.  In fact, I started this discussion with the CEO's post.

My comment was to the point that not everyone will be interested in specific features implemented, or problems fixed.  We should be tolerant of the priorities, instead of labeling them "mindless ...that nobody asked for"

Quoting Ian in the above blog
undoubtedly we will still disappoint some of you—whether it’s because you don’t like the way we choose to fix something, or we don’t prioritize a particular bug that drives you around the bend, or because with an eye to coherence and consistency we redesign and streamline a particular feature upon which your workflow is built.

And whether or not it is clear to you,  no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams ,it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

[jefito 5,589]

1 hour ago, dixonbruce said:

You’ve been dismissive of others’ problems for years, god knows why. Well here’s a CEO to prove you wrong.

Do you really want to go there? @DTLow has helped -- at a guess -- thousands of Evernote users to use Evernote better. And your comment about him denying that problems exist is just plain wrong; there's nothing of the sort there. Not sure where you're getting the stuff you're claiming, but it's not from anything written here. Please stop.

[silentquest 68]

I agree with the blog post from the CEO said and I’m excited to hear it. The only thing I wished he had touched on was security. Specifically note level security. That’s the one thing that keeps me from putting more into EN. I don’t consider this a feature but a core requirement for an app like this. 

I guess a majority don’t share this concern and thats fine. I do like the rest of what he said. The app already had many of the features an app in this category should have. It also sets the expectation that new features will not be added this year. 

As I said my only disappointment with his message was security especially since that was such a big deal last year. 

[Bill Myers 458]

I had been planning to write an "open letter" to Ian Small in the forum thread about him, but I think this blog post renders anything I'd say redundant. Small is acknowledging everything that's been bothering me about Evernote.

I've increasingly betrayed my frustration with Evernote in these forums over the past year, but I used to evangelize Evernote to anyone who would listen, and repeatedly defended the company in these forums during the backlash over the price increase and changes to subscription tiers. That's because I believed (and still believe) in the idea of a service that doesn't mine my data for sale to others, that treats me and not advertisers as the customer, and that has the feature sets that Evernote offers (or at least tries to).

I've talked about giving up on Evernote and leaving for another solution. I've said the main reason I don't is that it would be a huge PITA to migrate away. That's partly true. But the more important reason is that I keep hoping Evernote will finally fulfill the promise that made me embrace the service years ago.

When Evernote's features work, I find the user experience to be superior to that of other solutions I've tried such as OneNote. I like Evernote's organization better. I like the UI better. The web clipper -- even as bug-ridden as it usually is these days -- is superior to anything I've seen anyone else offer. I can organize, search for and sort my notes in Evernote in ways that I really like. 

If any Evernote employees are reading this, please tell Mr. Small that I want to love Evernote again. And he's saying all the right things to give me hope. But we've heard this stuff before. Phili Libin put on a hair shirt years ago but nothing changed. Actually, in some ways things got worse in my view.

But if Evernote can begin at least making some appreciable progress towards better quality, feature parity between platforms, and all that other good stuff I promise to stick around and try to be positive about the solution again. The company doesn't need to be perfect. It doesn't need to meet every one of my personal preferences. It just needs to start doing showing some tangible improvement. That's all I ask. If it does, I'd be happy to fully embrace the solution once again -- and tell others about why I like it so much.

[DTLow 5,736]

17 hours ago, silentquest said:

Specifically note level security....I guess a majority don’t share this concern

Enhancement to security (encryption) is important to me, but it doesn't seem to be an Evernote priority.

You focused on "note  level", but I address this with encryption.  
Other users are focused at the notebook level.  
My interest is encryption (in the cloud) at the database level for my entire set of notes.
- I know our data is encrypted-at-rest, but I want to hold the key

[eafpres 111]

Ironically although I found the remarks encouraging and appreciate the release notes with recent versions my iOS app quit syncing in the last couple of weeks, and as before I deleted reinstalled and resynced but it stopped syncing again. So for now it’s not usable. But I’m looking forward to continuous improvement. 

[gazumped 11,652]

OK so I reported this thread on the basis that the 'Gurus' are not employees: they're just other users.  ALL users (even Gurus) are entitled to air their own opinion and grievances on things at any time,  as long as that doesn't involve sniping at other users holding different opinions.  Doing so is in breach of the forum rules.

[dixonbruce 16]

You really have to be a bot. There’s no other sane explanation.

[Mike Figueroa 8]

2 hours ago, dixonbruce said:

Unbelievable.

[notetakeingguy 90]

21 hours ago, Bill Myers said:

I had been planning to write an "open letter" to Ian Small in the forum thread about him, but I think this blog post renders anything I'd say redundant. Small is acknowledging everything that's been bothering me about Evernote.

I've increasingly betrayed my frustration with Evernote in these forums over the past year, but I used to evangelize Evernote to anyone who would listen, and repeatedly defended the company in these forums during the backlash over the price increase and changes to subscription tiers. That's because I believed (and still believe) in the idea of a service that doesn't mine my data for sale to others, that treats me and not advertisers as the customer, and that has the feature sets that Evernote offers (or at least tries to).

I've talked about giving up on Evernote and leaving for another solution. I've said the main reason I don't is that it would be a huge PITA to migrate away. That's partly true. But the more important reason is that I keep hoping Evernote will finally fulfill the promise that made me embrace the service years ago.

When Evernote's features work, I find the user experience to be superior to that of other solutions I've tried such as OneNote. I like Evernote's organization better. I like the UI better. The web clipper -- even as bug-ridden as it usually is these days -- is superior to anything I've seen anyone else offer. I can organize, search for and sort my notes in Evernote in ways that I really like. 

If any Evernote employees are reading this, please tell Mr. Small that I want to love Evernote again. And he's saying all the right things to give me hope. But we've heard this stuff before. Phili Libin put on a hair shirt years ago but nothing changed. Actually, in some ways things got worse in my view.

But if Evernote can begin at least making some appreciable progress towards better quality, feature parity between platforms, and all that other good stuff I promise to stick around and try to be positive about the solution again. The company doesn't need to be perfect. It doesn't need to meet every one of my personal preferences. It just needs to start doing showing some tangible improvement. That's all I ask. If it does, I'd be happy to fully embrace the solution once again -- and tell others about why I like it so much.

I feel the same way.

Yes, maybe there is hope. Maybe one day on Windows they will:

- Add the URL back when you Send a Copy of a Note
- Allow scrolling as one reads a note
- Allow going backwards when one is in Presentation mode and just generally make it usable
- Stop stalling all the the time during searches and syncing
- Go back to the way PDFs worked better
- better way to capture a stylus the way OneNote does

And add highlighting to the Web version

I hope other companies will take note. I use Quicken and lots of users there are complaining about bugginess that never gets fixed. And AskLeo wrote about this called Microsoft, We Deserve Better: https://newsletter.askleo.com/ask-leo-728-microsoft-we-deserve-better/

 

[jefito 5,589]

4 hours ago, dixonbruce said:

My favourite, the editor doesn't work - well you really should be using a word processor if you want formatting. Evernote includes a "free" editor (with the paid service, so we should accept it for what is is). 

But that's entirely sensible advice.

The editor does indeed do formatting, but it's limited compared to, say, MS Word. If you want  more formatting than Evernote offers, you would be advised to, yes, use, say, MS Word for your purposes. You use a tool for what it's good for, not for what you wish it would be. I don't drive nails with a screwdriver; sure, you can do it, but it would be a lot better to use a hammer. A parallel a little closer to home: if I need to send email content that needs more elaborate formatting than GMail provides, I'm a lot more apt to send a PDF as an attachment.

Of course that doesn't preclude you from asking for improvements. It's entirely valid, and nobody's saying that you shouldn't. But in the meantime, you have a choice and the ability to use alternative means to accomplish your tasks.

The irony here is that choosing to add more features to the editor, across all platforms, would actually harm the immediate focus as implied by the CEO's post on fixing stability and reliability problems...

[dixonbruce 16]

People just want the features Evernote’s editor has to work properly. Nothing more. Tables. Copy and paste. Basic stuff.

@jefito

[Bill Myers 458]

On 1/3/2019 at 2:38 PM, jefito said:

Good luck, Evernote -- we're counting on you!!

[Bill Myers 458]

17 hours ago, notetakeingguy said:

I feel the same way.

Yes, maybe there is hope. Maybe one day on Windows they will:

- Add the URL back when you Send a Copy of a Note
- Allow scrolling as one reads a note
- Allow going backwards when one is in Presentation mode and just generally make it usable
- Stop stalling all the the time during searches and syncing
- Go back to the way PDFs worked better
- better way to capture a stylus the way OneNote does

And add highlighting to the Web version

I hope other companies will take note. I use Quicken and lots of users there are complaining about bugginess that never gets fixed. And AskLeo wrote about this called Microsoft, We Deserve Better: https://newsletter.askleo.com/ask-leo-728-microsoft-we-deserve-better/

 

Actually, at this point I'd settle for just fixing bugs and not introducing so many of them in subsequent releases of each client. That would be a great start.

Like Small said in his blog post, it will be impossible for users to reach a universal consensus about which features are more important than others. Nothing on your list really impacts me; it's possible my wish list wouldn't mean much to you either. That doesn't mean one of us is wrong, it just means everyone is going to have different opinions about what's important.

But I believe Evernote shouldn't be introducing bugs like the cursor that would lose focus in the Windows client. And if they do, it shouldn't take them as long to fix as this issue did. If they can just stop delivering broken software that would go a long way toward restoring my confidence.

Small was dead on when he said that one can't expect users to get excited about the future when there are such fundamental problems with the present offerings. I don't excited about new features when there's a high probability that they'll be bug-ridden.

It's true Small's words are just that: words. And we've heard promises like this from Evernote before. AFAIK, however, Small is the first CEO to talk about changing Evernote's development processes to ensure a better result. That gives me hope.

But, Mr. Small, please deliver on these promises. Please.

[Bill Myers 458]

16 hours ago, jefito said:

The irony here is that choosing to add more features to the editor, across all platforms, would actually harm the immediate focus as implied by the CEO's post on fixing stability and reliability problems...

I completely agree. I'd prefer to see a more stable, better quality product across all platforms, feature parity, and a more robust mobile client to start. If Small can really deliver on these promises, that will finally give us reason to get excited about new features in the future. It's tough to get excited about new features if we're worried that they're going to arrive broken.

[JohnLongney 83]

@DTLow

Somehow I cannot quite make out what made you start this thread. 

Not once can I recollect you being irratated or downright infuriated at bugs nor did you seem to accept the frequently made requests for improvement in the Evernote editor, amongst many other issues. Your assertations as to what you deem good or perfect in Evernote are no secret to regulars.

Now Mr. Ian Smith does want to invent the future and  has seen the necessity for giving  Evernote the inevitable overhaul pdq. The new CEO grasped the situation in next to no time and very understandably cannot promise new features just like that. 

Nonetheless, complaints and whining did reach Evernote management.

Would be nice and I'm sure very much appreciated if you'd adjust to the new consumer-orientated attitude. After all, millions of unpaid accounts don't really count. 

[DTLow 5,736]

13 hours ago, JohnLongney said:

Somehow I cannot quite make out what made you start this thread. 

Just passing on information, and opening up the topic for discussion.
I'm thinking the discussion should have been started by Evernote but I'm ok with filling the gap.

imho  I'm not that interested in the words; I'm watching the actions

>>Not once can I recollect you being irratated or downright infuriated

I don't get emotional about software; it's just one of the tools I use.
I'm Canadian; it's out of character for us to get "downright infuriated" 😊

>>nor did you seem to accept the frequently made requests

I add my vote to requests that impact my use.  I've posted some of those requests
I participate in beta testing and provide feedback.

 

[Shane D. 1,818]

Hi All,

I received several reports from the community regarding personal arguments within this thread that add nothing to the conversation.

That being said, I've deleted the comments that were flagged by other community members.

In short, please be civil and avoid personal conversations/arguments that derail the topic at hand.

If you have a specific issue/grievance please reach out to me directly and we can work together to find a solution.

Please continue to share your thoughts and ideas here regarding Ian's blog post.

Just make sure that you're keeping the conversation civil.

I appreciate your consideration, feedback, and engagement.

As always, feel free to reach out to me if you have any other questions!

[Escaped to Keep It 88]

Maybe I'm the only one who's worried about this statement in the blog:

Quote

We’re going to make fundamental changes to how we develop and deliver software—so that we can start to ship faster across all the devices we support, and so that all of us can experience the same Evernote, regardless of which device we use to experience it.

This sounds like using cross-platform development. This sounds like using Electron for it. That means becoming a memory hog. I hope I'm wrong. Right now Evernote has quite good native apps. If Evernote starts to use 500 MB+ memory, I'm out.

[dixonbruce 16]

5 hours ago, Marc_ said:

Maybe I'm the only one who's worried about this statement in the blog:

 This sounds like using cross-platform development. This sounds like using Electron for it. That means becoming a memory hog. I hope I'm wrong. Right now Evernote has quite good native apps. If Evernote starts to use 500 MB+ memory, I'm out.

So basically Evernote web in a container on the desktop. That would mean the end of synchronising with desktop - no more updating file attachments which is one of the few things that sets Evernote apart from the competition. Good call. I was actually entertaining the idea of going back to Evernote with this news, but I'd better wait and see what their plans are.

[Escaped to Keep It 88]

26 minutes ago, dixonbruce said:

So basically Evernote web in a container on the desktop. That would mean the end of synchronising with desktop - no more updating file attachments which is one of the few things that sets Evernote apart from the competition. Good call. I was actually entertaining the idea of going back to Evernote with this news, but I'd better wait and see what their plans are.

No that doesn't mean it will work (much) less, only that it will not be native anymore with several disadvantages, like bloat and non-native controls. But yes, it will look like a web app in a native window.

If it's true, I will leave Evernote for sure. I despise apps build on Javascript SDK's like Electron.

 

[dixonbruce 16]

2 minutes ago, Marc_ said:

No that doesn't mean it will work (much) less, only that it will not be native anymore with several disadvantages, like bloat and non-native controls. But yes, it will look like a web app in a native window.

  

If it isn't a desktop top app that syncs to the the local file system then it will be completely different for me. There are lots of note taking apps nowadays, but only Evernote has a true desktop app. Having to download files, update them, then upload them is not something I want to have to do.

[Escaped to Keep It 88]

6 minutes ago, dixonbruce said:

If it isn't a desktop top app that syncs to the the local file system then it will be completely different for me. There are lots of note taking apps nowadays, but only Evernote has a true desktop app. Having to download files, update them, then upload them is not something I want to have to do.

Well, Electron has the ability to use the OS API/SDK so I won't worry about that. It looks like a desktop app. It's only that the GUI would be using web techniques like HTML/CSS/JS; like a web app does.

If you're on a Mac like me, there are native options like DevonThink and Keep It.

[dixonbruce 16]

I'm on an Mac and am currently using Finder. It's got tags and I just create files for notes. I miss not being able to have attachments inline with text and not being able to share online as easily, but I'm managing. For me the editable documents inline though is the killer feature that I haven't seen anywhere else - except OneNote which I really don't like.

[jefito 5,589]

5 hours ago, Marc_ said:

This sounds like using cross-platform development. This sounds like using Electron for it. That means becoming a memory hog. I hope I'm wrong. Right now Evernote has quite good native apps. If Evernote starts to use 500 MB+ memory, I'm out.

Not necessarily. As far as I know, they already use cross-platform of sorts: Chromium Embedded Framework (CEF), for note rendering and editing interactions, wrapped up in native applications. They may just be implying a better, or at least tighter, process to  coordinate fixes and new features across the various platforms. They've been loosely coupled historically, aside from required changes forced by changes to their SDK (which all Evernote applications use)..

Porting to an entirely new system would be a surprising strategy to try and gain stability. It just doesn't just work automatically, and it's not an overnight switch-over. We'll see, but I doubt that that's what they're doing. That being said, I'm not privy to their internal plans, and cross-platform isn't really what I do (mainly Windows-based GIS analysis and visualization) so I'm clearly no expert in that area. But swapping over to a new underlying framework is never as clean as one hopes, and not to be taken lightly.

On the other hand, it could happen. Evernote for Windows, which I use most of the time,  is pretty rich, though I use it pretty simply, and though I could probably work with a simpler UI if it takes awhile to roll out an Electron (or whatever) based system. The memory load doesn't bother me as much, not with Visual Studio weighing in at 1GB+, and Chrome being what it is,;it's mainly functionality. But there are a lot of people who absolutely depend on the way the Windows (and I expect Mac and the other platforms); one little weak/regression/change and some segment of users goes nuts. That's not gonna be great, optics-wise. I can only imagine what the Mac side of things would look like. Fortunately for Evernote, none of the competitors out there are perfect

[dixonbruce 16]

My fear is they throw all of their resources at the web app (which already exists) and mobile apps, and abandon the desktop ones. Bear in mind he's talking about a "mobile first" experience. 

Maybe they'll try and replicate the missing desktop features as much as possible. Of course it makes sense if they have less platforms to maintain, but I can't see a web app ever replicating the desktop experience. If they have reduced the workforce, maybe they don't just don't have the resources to maintain the 5 platforms. 

@jefito

 

 

[CalS 5,280]

My hope would be the UI's are tailored to the platforms (desktop, mobile, tablet, web) and that feature/function gets normalized across them all.  The last thing we need is a phone or browser UI in a desktop client world.  Lose way too much productivity when that happens.  And EN is a productivity app, for me anyway, clicks and presses count.

[gazumped 11,652]

Like I said - the expressed intent is -

On 1/4/2019 at 12:38 AM, gazumped said:

definitely the talk - now lets see the walk... 

Seems fairly pointless worrying about where this 'might' take Evernote,  or using,  or not using,  the app because of what it might become.  I'm still firmly using it because it works for me.  If something better comes along I'll still hesitate,  because learning how to use a 'better' system might still take up more work than sticking with Evernote.  But if ever the crunch comes,  I'm gone.  No-one to whom I'm responsible is going to accept the excuse that my work is late because the software doesn't do what I need it to.  It will be interesting to see what progress is made in the next 6 months...  I hope they do well - I don't want to have to break in a whole new forum... 🤭

[CalS 5,280]

2 hours ago, gazumped said:

Seems fairly pointless worrying about where this 'might' take Evernote,  or using,  or not using,  the app because of what it might become. 

You've been around the forums long enough to know it may be fairly pointless to point this out.  

[DTLow 5,736]

3 hours ago, gazumped said:

But if ever the crunch comes,  I'm gone. 

Same here.  Before I started with Evernote, I made sure it was easy to exit with my data intact.  
All that's required is a 30  minute export; I run this weekly in my data backups.

As to what defines the "crunch", that's suggestive.  
Some users post it's the editor features;  I focus more on the filing features.

[jefito 5,589]

I've long considered Evernote to be a note management analog to Gmail -- just the overall search / organization stuff seems pretty similar. Gmail is of course a web-only thing, so that might make an web-only version of Evernote at least a thinkable option (though not a trivial one). And one thing about Gmail is this: you can download your emails  to a local machine. If Evernote were to go to a web-only client -- and I have no means of gauging whether they will or not -- I'd hope and expect that they'd offer a download option as well.

[eafpres 111]

Just a couple thoughts from my perspective.  I'm an independent consultant and have used Evernote for several years in my business.  It helps me organize information in projects, create some documents (although I do that mainly in other tools), and importantly collect things from the web like articles, pdfs, images, etc. that are relevant content.  Importantly is the ability to search (which I wish was much more powerful than it is) and access content at any time (even years later for some projects) as well as the automation that associates the original web address with the content, in case I need to verify it is the same, as well as provide references (many reports I write require referencing all external content--clients want that).  So, it's important to me and deeply integrated into my work and therefore my livelihood.  Having framed it that way:

1) If I had it to do over I would have a more robust way to independently access the content, in the event of issues, closure of EN, etc.  Unfortunately, I have a very high % of PDFs in my data, and the export to HTML does not address that.  Going back and matching PDFs with content is a pain I hope I don't have to face.  The reality is then that I could go to another platform but probably would NOT migrate legacy projects.  Therefore, under almost any scenario I see myself continuing to use the Windows client for a long time.

2) Considering what using it ongoing might mean in the scenarios some of you have painted, I have convinced myself of the following: absent a complete shutdown of Evernote and therefore their servers, I expect I could freeze my setup at the version I use now and I could use that for years at least.  My reasoning is that any company is very unlikely, even if they decide to roll out completely new clients to all platforms, to cut off the existing users very fast.  However, that day could come, but it would give me a lot of time to figure out what's next.  I'm "relatively" happy with Windows 6.16.4 and have stopped updating for now as it seems stable enough and the pathologies (bugs or "features") I don't like are things I can live with.  It's better than it was last summer, so my trend has been positive.  

3) Some of you may recall that EN DID roll out a Windows client that looked and worked almost the same as the Web, and the user community revolted and they relented.  That version was never to be seen again, as far as I can tell.  I would be astonished if they did that again.  I take the blog comments to mean harmonizing feature sets, not necessarily code, but I could be very wrong.  However, if they really try to go with one version, for me, if it WORKS, is reasonably "not slow", and doesn't crash or lose data, I'll probably be OK.  Some years ago I was firmly in the camp of "no web-only apps for me", as I wanted "control" of having local data etc.  However, over time I've become converted.  Examples include Wunderlist (although Microsoft may yet ruin that!), Toggl, reddit, Linkedin, Slack, and Twitter.  Although some of these have Windows clients or "Windows apps", I stopped using them as, for instance, the Windows Slack app is a memory hog, and it runs fine in my browser.  I have the reddit app on my iOS devices but use it in-browser otherwise.  Toggl and Wunderlist have never had Windows native clients.

At any rate, I'll keep hoping for the best.  I do appreciate the points of view here as I would not have interpreted things in the ways that some of you have, and it has given me some good insights.  Nonetheless, if I don't work I don't get paid (at all!) so I'll stop rambling and go back to work, including with Evernote.

[DTLow 5,736]

48 minutes ago, eafpres said:

Unfortunately, I have a very high % of PDFs in my data, and the export to HTML does not address that. 

Not clear what the issue is.  Pdfs are available in my backups, along with other format attachments.

I'm using export on a Mac, and each note is a separate file/folder.

[gazumped 11,652]

4 hours ago, CalS said:

You've been around the forums long enough to know it may be fairly pointless to point this out.  

Yeah,  well...  :shrug:

Edit:  Huh.  If you want something done...😎

[eafpres 111]

2 hours ago, DTLow said:

Not clear what the issue is.  Pdfs are available in my backups, along with other format attachments.

I'm using export on a Mac, and each note is a separate file/folder.

When I export in Windows, the PDFs are not there--there are images of them, as cgi files.  The html files are stored one level above the folders, which is also messy.

[RavBoy 189]

On 1/4/2019 at 10:38 AM, gazumped said:

That's definitely the talk - now lets see the walk...

I love EN 😍 (got to get that T-shirt made).  It's absolutely central to everything I do online.  It's rolled the once many apps I used in to one, in a similar way my smartphone has rolled the once many separate hardware devices I used in to one.  And having it be accessible from anywhere, means I no longer worry (as much) about backing up my local PC based files, flexibility, etc, and for the most part EN has worked great for me.

I was really thrilled by Ian Small blog post, especially the part about making EN consistent across platforms, so I entirely agree with what Gazumped said.  I mean it's great their transparent about their Big Picture Plans for 2019 "The Talk"... but at some point that must translate into action... into a list of "Inconsistencies" (as per CalS below) across devices that they've identified, leading to a prioritised-list of what will get done first and by when...

When their also transparent about that list, the 2019 action plan, perhaps the cynic in me and others I've read in this post ("heard it before"), will start to have more faith, now that we can see rubber actually hitting the road "The Walk"

11 hours ago, CalS said:

My hope would be the UI's are tailored to the platforms (desktop, mobile, tablet, web) and that feature/function gets normalized across them all.

Show us the detailed NEXT STEPS, the  EN 2019 Prioritised-List of Tasks Action Plan Mr Small

[CalS 5,280]

4 hours ago, eafpres said:

1) ...Going back and matching PDFs with content is a pain I hope I don't have to face....

2) Considering what using it ongoing might mean in the scenarios some of you have painted, I have convinced myself of the following: absent a complete shutdown of Evernote and therefore their servers, I expect I could freeze my setup at the version I use now and I could use that for years at least.  

3) ... if it WORKS, is reasonably "not slow", and doesn't crash or lose data ..

At any rate, I'll keep hoping for the best.  I do appreciate the points of view here as I would not have interpreted things in the ways that some of you have, and it has given me some good insights.  Nonetheless, if I don't work I don't get paid (at all!) so I'll stop rambling and go back to work, including with Evernote.

1.  If you open the HTML file with a browser the PDFs are inline so to speak.  Don't know if it helps much...

2.  Agreed.  Without any major OS glitches one should be able to run for quite a while, single machine anyway.

3.  The key points.  I am a bit more hesitant though, web apps tend to be less productive, more steps, for me anyway.

Ditto, hoping for the best.

[eafpres 111]

“If you open the HTML file with a browser the PDFs are inline so to speak.  Don't know if it helps much...”

yes, “content” is there. Not what I want but okay if no other option. 

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

On 1/3/2019 at 11:46 AM, DTLow said:

https://evernote.com/blog/looking-ahead-evernotes-priorities-2019/

@IanSmall:  In general I like what you say.  I have been asking for your three main points for years:

Quote

1. We’re going to create a more coherent, more consistent Evernote experience for every version of the product we ship, starting from Evernote Basic on up—an experience that fixes the essential features on which all of us depend.
2. We’re going to make fundamental changes to how we develop and deliver software—so that we can start to ship faster across all the devices we support, and so that all of us can experience the same Evernote, regardless of which device we use to experience it.
3. And we’re going to make improvements to the core infrastructure that sits behind the applications you experience so that we can deliver an Evernote with the speed, reliability, and scalability that all of us expect.

The only one that gives me some concern, is #2.  I agree with the main statement, but the reason why is concerning.

IMO, you need to revise your process of developing and delivering the software -- not to ship faster -- but to (1) make each release with fewer bugs (no material bugs).  I would much rather wait longer between releases to get higher quality software.   And to (2) not to change the UI without a compelling reason to do so.  There seems to be a key design strategy amongst many UI designers (not just Evernote) that they need to keep making changes to the UI so it will be "fresh", and the users won't get "bored" and go elsewhere. This is a highly flawed strategy.

IMO, application software (whether desktop, web, or mobile) should never change the UI unless there is a compelling reason to do so.  Every time you change the UI you interrupt the productivity of the user.  You cause him/her pain because his/her "muscle memory" must now be unlearned, and then learn something new. 

• Do a really great job of designing the UI the first time. 
• Do lots of end-user and beta testing. 
• Do lots of QA testing, trying to break the software, or get unintended results. 
• Fix every issue you find from this. 
• Then deploy the UI design and leave it alone for a really long time. 

Yes, you can, and should, make tweaks after deployment, but these should be minor, mostly to fix edge cases.  If you find major UI issues after deployment, then you didn't do a proper design and test to begin with.

And one more thing about UI design:  Please consider that many, perhaps most, of your users do not have the perfect eyesight of a 20-year-old.  Please make sure the text is always very readable, using a reasonable font size, and avoiding low-contrast between text and background.

Good luck.  I think you are about the 3rd CEO of Evernote, so I really hope third-time's-a-charm.  

[gazumped 11,652]

10 hours ago, eafpres said:

“If you open the HTML file with a browser the PDFs are inline so to speak.  Don't know if it helps much...”

yes, “content” is there. Not what I want but okay if no other option. 

If I had to match a number of PDFs that would be a problem too - I digitised a small reference 'library' into Evernote by scanning lots of stuff to PDF and the file names are all over the place.  (I was just starting out and tried several really good,  but ultimately non-compatible naming schemes...)

If you're on Windows it is possible to extract ALL attachments in a search result / note / notebook / stack(?) / account to files,  and without thinking about it too deeply,  or engaging in anything sensible like testing,  I think my initial strategy would be to extract all attachments into files and add those files to a single Google Drive folder.  Then,  as I continued to use Evernote,  I'd look for attachments to the notes I was using and replace those attachments with GDrive links.  There could well be interesting problems along the way...

Just sayin'

[eafpres 111]

52 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Just sayin'

:-)  Good suggestions; I'll get to this during the long refractory period between when the Evernote Apocalypse does arrive (if ever) and when they stop supporting my client version.

[CalS 5,280]

42 minutes ago, eafpres said:

I'll get to this during the long refractory period between when the Evernote Apocalypse does arrive (if ever) and when they stop supporting my client version.

That could very well be at the same moment as the cataclysm.  Living in a world of local notebooks at that point.     

IAC, the time period would be until the client and the OS go sideways for desktops.  Keep a copy of the most recent version download around....  And don't log out....

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

@IanSmall:

  This is an example of a bug/design flaw, that never should have been released.    It is very obvious, and should’ve been found by the most cursory review. 

 

 

[mynah 1]

On 1/4/2019 at 11:42 PM, silentquest said:

I agree with the blog post from the CEO said and I’m excited to hear it. The only thing I wished he had touched on was security. Specifically note level security. That’s the one thing that keeps me from putting more into EN. I don’t consider this a feature but a core requirement for an app like this. 

I guess a majority don’t share this concern and thats fine. I do like the rest of what he said. The app already had many of the features an app in this category should have. It also sets the expectation that new features will not be added this year. 

As I said my only disappointment with his message was security especially since that was such a big deal last year. 

Yes, I followed all the links explaining Google's security policies, but how do we know Google itself is not reading and using our content?

[DTLow 5,736]

10 minutes ago, mynah said:

how do we know Google itself is not reading and using our content

I  know no one is reading and using my content that I encrypted.

[mikefinleyco 52]

On 1/5/2019 at 2:37 PM, jefito said:

. If you want  more formatting than Evernote offers, you would be advised to, yes, use, say, MS Word for your purposes. You use a tool for what it's good for, not for what you wish it would be. I don't drive nails with a screwdriver; sure, you can do it, but it would be a lot better to use a hammer. A parallel a little closer to home: if I need to send email content that needs more elaborate formatting than GMail provides, I'm a lot more apt to send a PDF as an attachment.

Of course that doesn't preclude you from asking for improvements. It's entirely valid, and nobody's saying that you shouldn't. But in the meantime, you have a choice and the ability to use alternative means to accomplish your tasks.

The irony here is that choosing to add more features to the editor, across all platforms, would actually harm the immediate focus as implied by the CEO's post on fixing stability and reliability problems...

 

I cannot stand the mentality of people who continuously have to cut and paste comments like this to people who are talking about improving a product. When evernote was in it's first year with 10 features did you continuously write comments like this to everyone who asked about new features, the new features that exist now because they were asked for? Improvements are the result of improving a product not telling people to be happy with version 10.3 as if you're in charge of stopping version 10.4 from coming about and you get joy from doing it if you could. Evernote is surprisingly robust in some features and surprisingly infantile in others. Stop telling people to be happy with what exists please, everyone benefits from improvements.

[DTLow 5,736]

22 hours ago, mikefinleyco said:

I cannot stand the mentality of people

My mentality is that I'm interested in all methods of improving my use of the hardware and software.
I do read the feature requests and add my votes for features that will improve my use.

fwiw  As an Apple user, my editor choice for Word Processing is the Pages app.
           For spreadsheets, I use the Numbers app.

[mynah 1]

59 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I  know no one is reading and using my content that I encrypted.

There is no way I'm going to encrypt several hundred thousand notes I have collected since the time I joined Evernote. One reason to join at the time was that EN had proprietary servers. Now they have moved to Google. They have even closed the European office. Googles policies promise not to give out data to third parties but nowhere state that they will not use it themselves. They already know more than enough about me and anyone I associate with through Android.

[User63 3]

1 hour ago, mikefinleyco said:

I cannot stand the mentality of people...

I have to wonder about people who have thousands or tens of thousands of (unpaid) posts on the help forums of an internet company anyway, regardless of what they cut and paste!

[Dave-in-Decatur 3,938]

2 hours ago, mikefinleyco said:

I cannot stand the mentality of people who continuously have to cut and paste comments like this to people who are talking about improving a product. When evernote was in it's first year with 10 features did you continuously write comments like this to everyone who asked about new features, the new features that exist now because they were asked for? Improvements are the result of improving a product not telling people to be happy with version 10.3 as if you're in charge of stopping version 10.4 from coming about and you get joy from doing it if you could. Evernote is surprisingly robust in some features and surprisingly infantile in others. Stop telling people to be happy with what exists please, everyone benefits from improvements.

Here's what bugs me on this forum: people making assumptions about other people's activities and motivations, and giving them orders. To wit:

1. People are cutting and pasting comments.
2. "As if you're in charge of stopping version 10.4."
3. "and you get joy from doing it if you could."
4. "Stop telling people...."

Sorry, but it just galls me that someone who's been on the forum for just over a year and has 14 posts imagines they know all about someone who's been here for 10 years and has over 17,000 posts. I really try to avoid making statements about what someone else is doing and thinking (hence I've had to severely edit this post!). But I guess I shouldn't tell folks who are so certain how others ought to act how to act, since it just puts me in the same leaky boat. Sigh. Earth people--what gets into them? 

[DTLow 5,736]

 

2 hours ago, mynah said:

One reason to join at the time was that EN had proprietary servers. Now they have moved to Google.

That's old news, and has been dealt with in other discussions.

>>Googles policies promise not to give out data to third parties but nowhere state that they will not use it themselves.

You seem confused with Googles policies for their user accounts, and their business server accounts.  
Yes, they state they will not use the data for themselves.

https://evernote.com/legal/terms-of-service
https://cloud.google.com/terms/

>>There is no way I'm going to encrypt several hundred thousand notes

I only encrypt my sensitive data.
I'd prefer my entire database be encrypted end-to-end but that option isn't supported by the Evernote processing.

 

[mynah 1]

Thank you for explaining and adding the links. Also thank you for responding so quickly at all. I haven't been reading old news, just followed the links in the new CEO's announcements.

[jefito 5,589]

On 1/21/2019 at 2:18 PM, mikefinleyco said:

I cannot stand the mentality of people who continuously have to cut and paste comments like this to people who are talking about improving a product. When evernote was in it's first year with 10 features did you continuously write comments like this to everyone who asked about new features, the new features that exist now because they were asked for? Improvements are the result of improving a product not telling people to be happy with version 10.3 as if you're in charge of stopping version 10.4 from coming about and you get joy from doing it if you could. Evernote is surprisingly robust in some features and surprisingly infantile in others. Stop telling people to be happy with what exists please, everyone benefits from improvements.

What a weird little post. I guess it's a human trait to hate things we don't understand, but it's generally not something most humans are publicly proud of...

 

[jefito 5,589]

On 1/21/2019 at 3:42 PM, User63 said:

I have to wonder about people who have thousands or tens of thousands of (unpaid) posts on the help forums of an internet company anyway, regardless of what they cut and paste!

Well, I'm sure we're all hanging here with bated breath to learn the outcome of this grand experiment in thinking, but waiting is painful, so I'll spare you any more wondering to let you know that all of the ones I know are avid users of Evernote, and spend most of their time here in the forums helping other Evernote users to use Evernote better. Oh, and yes, they often have and express opinions about Evernote, make suggestions for improvements, and even occasionally engage in tomfoolery. Does that answer your question?

[DTLow 5,736]

We're not going to be paid??? 😮

[jefito 5,589]

11 hours ago, DTLow said:

We're not going to be paid??? 😮

Not in money, no, but can't you just feel the love???

[CheBourne 0]

Absolutely agree with DTLow - we want end-to-end encryption with the customer in control of the keys. Would be prepared to pay extra for this functionality. It is VERY odd that Evernote is not pursuing this and makes no mention of it. It does question their motivation and ultimate business model priorities??????

[TK0047 422]

A nice blog post acknowledging some of the issues and frustrations that have been ongoing for a while. Reading it felt like a humble CEO is going back to the fundamentals and root of the problems and committing it to make it better. 

It felt like an honest not a political post to me at least which made me excited for 2019 and future of Evernote. Like others said, let's see if he can walk the talk now. But I think acknowledging some fundamental issues and concerns of the users was a fresh breath of air for me and a good start.

Good luck!

[Bill Myers 458]

2 hours ago, TK0047 said:

A nice blog post acknowledging some of the issues and frustrations that have been ongoing for a while. Reading it felt like a humble CEO is going back to the fundamentals and root of the problems and committing it to make it better. 

I wholeheartedly agree. Phil Libin issued a public mea culpa some years ago and promised to do better but offered no specifics. He then embarked on a strategy to take on Microsoft Office, which did not appear to succeed. The core issues with quality remained (or even worsened).

Chris O'Neill talked a great deal about improving Evernote's financial position. I'm aware of the importance but it's the sort of thing that is of more interest to investors and employees than to customers. (Can you imagine someone advertising a product or service by saying, "You'll love our offering! We have more free cash flow than the competition!") He also spoke a great deal about adding new capabilities like machine learning, but very little about addressing core quality issues with the existing product.

Ian Small's remarks represent the first time I've been aware of an Evernote CEO addressing the core quality issues so specifically and talking about taking substantive action. Granted, promising to "make fundamental changes to how we develop and deliver software" isn't *super* specific but it's substantive enough to give me a glimmer of hope.

I think everyone here is agreed that the proof will be in the results. But Small has given me reason at least to hang on a little while longer, at least through 2019.

[cctiger2 21]

Agree with others here stating a general idea of, "Good words, but I'll believe it when I see it."
I've been an EN user since the beginning.  The feature set of being able to dump all kinds of data here (current note count:  23,360) and find it again is what brought me in to start, and what has kept me here.  I really hope Small is able to deliver on improving the basics, and stabilizing the core functions of Evernote.  

In the process, I really hope a few things stay in the focus too:

• Please don't forget about individual users!  Businesses are not the only customers.  
• Keep High Quality Desktop Apps.  I've been saddened as much of the software I use seems to be tending toward a focus on web and mobile apps.  While this is handy, desktop is still my base for serious work.  Please don't neglect that!
• Please do some prioritization of features that are frequently requested.  I realize that, as Small acknowledges, there's no way to make everyone happy; and the EN Development is balancing priorities most of us as users are likely unaware of.  However, common features that have been requested by hundreds of users over many years do seem like they'd be worthy of some attention.  

Thanks for the update Ian, and as others here have expressed - I hope you're able to make it work.  EN is a great tool, great product - we'd like to see it fulfill that potential.  

[jefito 5,589]

1 hour ago, Bill Myers said:

Chris O'Neill talked a great deal about improving Evernote's financial position. I'm aware of the importance but it's the sort of thing that is of more interest to investors and employees than to customers. (Can you imagine someone advertising a product or service by saying, "You'll love our offering! We have more free cash flow than the competition!") He also spoke a great deal about adding new capabilities like machine learning, but very little about addressing core quality issues with the existing product.

Of course the flip side of this is that if you don't have cash flow, then you can't hold on to employees (or you downsize), and your shrinking smaller staff is more and more hard-pressed to do all of the things you were doing before with more people. And before you know it, you have no company, or it's gobbled up for any useful intellectual property. And with no company, features don't matter. I'm thinking SpringPad at the moment, though I've also experienced it up close and personal. So you can't discount putting your company on a good financial footing, and if Chris O'Neill did that then that's a good thing, even if he dropped the ball with the branding stuff, and perhaps didn't focus on stability and consistency issues. But if Ian Smalls can stick to focusing on the goals he laid out before adding significant new features, while maintaining stable financials, then I'd be fine with that.

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

2 hours ago, Bill Myers said:

Chris O'Neill talked a great deal about improving Evernote's financial position. I'm aware of the importance but it's the sort of thing that is of more interest to investors and employees than to customers. (Can you imagine someone advertising a product or service by saying, "You'll love our offering! We have more free cash flow than the competition!") He also spoke a great deal about adding new capabilities like machine learning, but very little about addressing core quality issues with the existing product.

I agree.  Your point is well-taken.  It's a matter of tailoring your message to the audience.  Although most users want the company that provides the software to be profitable, I submit that they don't want to hear the CEO talk more about profit than about fixing issues and providing long-requested features.

[Bill Myers 458]

On 1/24/2019 at 3:52 PM, jefito said:

Of course the flip side of this is that if you don't have cash flow, then you can't hold on to employees (or you downsize), and your shrinking smaller staff is more and more hard-pressed to do all of the things you were doing before with more people.

I agree. But Evernote did downsize during O'Neill's tenure. And an internal email leaked to the media revealed it was because the company hadn't met certain financial targets. So it's not as though everything was unicorns and rainbows at Evernote.

Because I can't read minds and am not privy to internal discussions within the Evernote organization, all I have to go on is what Evernote executives and employees say publicly. And the only things I recall O'Neill really saying publicly were about the company's finances, and a push to move Evernote into the machine learning space. There was never any talk about fixing the fundamental flaws with the service that have been frustrating even some of the most ardent and enthusiastic Evernote supporters. Therefore I had no reason to believe that quality and stability were a focus.

That's why I had to give serious thought to leaving the service. If the company couldn't put out a Windows client where the cursor stayed put where it was supposed to, and the top executive wasn't publicly acknowledging that there were fundamental problems like this, I didn't feel like what I was paying for an Evernote subscription was well-spent.

But Small very specifically acknowledges these problems. He's outlined a plan to address them. I won't be satisfied unless he gets results... but at least now I have reason to believe things might get better.

And if they do... I'll have reason to get excited about the future of Evernote, whether that's machine learning or some other innovation I can't predict at this point. Because if the foundations of Evernote are solid, I'll have reason to feel confident that whatever new capabilities are eventually unveiled will be solid as well.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I think ot was nice for the CEO to post. He’s surely busy, and I appreciate him taking the time to share his thoughts.

I generally think it’s helpful to separate Evernote’s promises (the features it promotes and offers) from user requests (the features we think it shoukd have). In other words, differentiating the Evernote that “is” from the Evernote that some people (few features are going to get universal agreement) thinkbit “ought” to be.

In this case, I interpret the CEO as recognizing that Evernote hasn’t been living up to the standards it has set—it promises certain things, but isn’t delivering, so he wants to take care of that. Personally, I think this ought to be done in days, not weeks. 

Additional security features and other “new” stuff is fine and all, but I’m in no hurry to see them break stuff rushing to churn it out—the all-too-common problen with past releases. I think slowly and steadily building new functionality into it while rigorously testing each release is the way to go.

My personal wish list begins and ends with zero-knowledge encryption of everything. Other apps have it. It can be done. It is being done. So, make it so. By the way, in answer to the queries above: Google and Evernote staff “can” look at anything they want, though they say they don’t do it except in limited circumstances. I have nothing against staff at either company, but we shouldn’t be required to “trust” strangers, and no one should have the power/burden of access to so much personal information—Google staff (in violation of internal rules, of course) have been caught snooping in the past, so... zero knowledge please.

[GiacomoLaw 134]

Glad to see that they are financially healthy. Just wondering why they are going through CEOs so quickly. Hopefully the new one can pull of these new features! Previous one did well imo, EN is faster, and glad to see a reduction in clutter of apps. Hopefully we can see new features added, and improvements to syncing.

[jefito 5,589]

3 hours ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

so... zero knowledge please.

I'm all about that -- at my stage of life, I have zero-knowledge days on occasion. That's what you're talking about, right?  

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

LOL. It’s tough to call the drivel I produce knowledge, so maybe I’m at zero as well. 

[jefito 5,589]

Well, we may not be Breaking Bad, but at least we're Breaking Even!

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

7 hours ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

My personal wish list begins and ends with zero-knowledge encryption of everything.

My list starts with fixing all of the material bugs Evernote Mac has had for years, and especially those bugs that have been introduced in recent versions.

Then, I too would like to see zero-knowledge encryption of everything.  But my list doesn't stop there.

To make the Evernote Search really powerful, it needs to have at least these features:

1. Work with Spotlight Search (which was broken in recent versions)
2. Full boolean search.

7 hours ago, GrumpyMonkey said:

I think ot was nice for the CEO to post. He’s surely busy, and I appreciate him taking the time to share his thoughts.

Agreed.  But I think it was more than nice.  I think it is essential for a new CEO to communicate clearly with his customers, and keep them advised of where he is steering the Evernote ship.

[EdH 1,670]

Quote

Or that Evernote on Windows is a bit tired, and is missing features that are found on the Mac version

While I agree that Evernote on Windows could use some work, especially on the database format that simply is not up to the task, as both a Mac and Windows user, I much prefer the Windows version due to missing features on the Mac. Just some examples (no one respond with "well, I can do this with AppleScript! - 1) that isn't helpful for those that don't want to use a programing language to use their app and 2) windows doesn't have that so it is irrelevant):

1. Notes created via the Table of Contents feature are populated with a "file://Table of Contents" string in the URL, making searching for TOC notes possible.
2. Notes can be merged in the order selected. You you cannot do this on the Mac. You have to edit them in a specific order to trick the sytem in to modifying the updated date, and then merge, and then hope you didn't get the logic backwards.
3. You cannot set up Import folders on the Mac where you can just drop a bunch of files info a folder and Evernote will create notes for all of them and optionally remove the files. This is awesome for personal and work workflows.
4. You cannot set the Mac client to sync on demand, meaning I don't have to have my 8-9GB database of notes on my Windows PC, but do on my Mac. Here the Windows PC allows you to work like mobile devices. You can download what you want, and search all of it, but only download bodies as necessary.
5. Windows lets you put the shortcut menu across the top as a separate toolbar. Makes it easy to select without having massive amounts of up/down scrolling on the left pane.
6. Windows has an honest-to-goodness set of toolbar buttons to indent/outdent. On the Mac you have to hit Option-< or Option >, or option-shift-[, or ctrl-option-left-shift-key-{ or some such nonsense. Keyboard shortcuts are fine, but shouldn't be the only way to do something.
7. Windows has a real toolbar for notes, not a mile wide swath of white space with a big green SHARE button.

There are others, but those are the quick ones off the top of my head. Implementing the Mac model in any of these areas is a step forward only for someone in design that clearly isn't using the product to its fullest, or simply doesn't care what the user wants.

On the other hand, I cannot think of a single feature on the Mac platform I wish Windows had. I am sure there are some, but I am not one of the ones to use them.

We shouldn't move to one or the other model. We should get the best of both in a client sync'd up in the best features and designed with usability in mind, not prettiness awards that reward minimalism vs productivity.

[DTLow 5,736]

47 minutes ago, EdH said:

On the other hand, I cannot think of a single feature on the Mac platform I wish Windows had. 

Integrated Scripting (Applescript)   - as you noted, this may by more of an OS function.

Data File Structure - separate components instead of a single .exb file

[s2sailor 2,183]

23 minutes ago, EdH said:

On the other hand, I cannot think of a single feature on the Mac platform I wish Windows had.

I second this.  As a long time windows user I had seen comments about how great the Mac interface was.  About a year ago I moved over to the Mac for home use expecting to be wowed and instead was underwhelmed.  In addition to selecting merge order I like the ability to remove the fat header and instead have a horizontal line.  I miss not having the color options in the left hand pane and lack of customizable toolbar.  You have to go menu digging to get to some pretty common editing tasks.  The Mac app should not be the gold standard and let's universally get rid of the green share button.

[jefito 5,589]

1 hour ago, EdH said:

Just some examples (no one respond with "well, I can do this with AppleScript! - 1) that isn't helpful for those that don't want to use a programing language to use their app and 2) windows doesn't have that so it is irrelevant):

In general, I agree with you. I don't see the Windows application to be 'tired' at all, and it fits like an old favorite pair of jeans, maybe a little frayed in spots, but comfortable and functional. I've never used the Mac, so I can't compare between the two desktop versions, but AppleScript sounds pretty cool, and I would like a better scripting solution than ENScript, which *is* a little old in the tooth. I've used it for scripting automated backups, where it works fine (though a bit clumsily), but not much more. Maybe Evernote should open source it. *sound of two hands rubbing in glee*

[EdH 1,670]

9 minutes ago, jefito said:

In general, I agree with you. I don't see the Windows application to be 'tired' at all, and it fits like an old favorite pair of jeans, maybe a little frayed in spots, but comfortable and functional. I've never used the Mac, so I can't compare between the two desktop versions, but AppleScript sounds pretty cool, and I would like a better scripting solution than ENScript, which *is* a little old in the tooth. I've used it for scripting automated backups, where it works fine (though a bit clumsily), but not much more. Maybe Evernote should open source it. *sound of two hands rubbing in glee*

If you google Evernote and PowerShell it seems there is some ways to interact with Evernote on a PC with PowerShell, but I'd rather stick a pencil in my ear.

[jefito 5,589]

1 minute ago, EdH said:

If you google Evernote and PowerShell it seems there is some ways to interact with Evernote on a PC with PowerShell, but I'd rather stick a pencil in my ear.

been there. Once. No pencils but some loss of hair. 

 

[EdH 1,670]

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

Integrated Scripting (Applescript)   - as you noted, this may by more of an OS function.

Data File Structure - separate components instead of a single .exb file

I don't really care how they implement the database for Evernote on either platform. It isn't separate components vs single file that makes the Mac version fast and Windows slow. It is that the chosen database MySQL isn't up to the task once you get a few hundred or thousand notes. It pauses and stutters. There are a TON of good single-file database products out there. SQL Express would have been a good choice except the MS licensing on it limits it to 10GB, which is a non-starter. There are dozens of other options too. All a matter of cost, effort, performance, overhead, etc. 

[DTLow 5,736]

5 hours ago, EdH said:

I don't really care how they implement the database for Evernote on either platform. It isn't separate components vs single file that makes the Mac version fast and Windows slow. 

I have no idea of the perfomance impact
I like being able to access my note contents directly, for example the content.enml data.

[jefito 5,589]

4 hours ago, EdH said:

It is that the chosen database MySQL isn't up to the task

Minor correction -- it's SQLite, not MySQL. I don't really have any insights on its performance vs other databases, and of course DB structure can make a big difference so not much to say. Plus I'm guessing that they also do some indexing on their own outside of the DB interface to get search-as-you-type results. I don't seem to have performance problems -- I don't have a huge note database as others do, and I keep mine on SSD -- but as a friend / colleague of mine once said, "if it's not done what it's supposed to be doing by the time I lift my finger off the key, it's too slow", and that does occur occasionally to me.

[Bill Myers 458]

Well, FWIW it seems Small's blog post has generated a little bit of buzz. For example:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quickerbettertech/2019/01/13/evernote-promises-to-fix-a-long-list-of-problems-and-other-small-business-tech-news-this-week/#233a7dce2a93

As I keep saying, none of this will matter if it isn't followed up by delivering results. But I think Small's remarks, which were smart and cogent, are buying Evernote some space to repair its foundations.

For the first time in awhile, I'm optimistic about Evernote's future. I look forward to seeing what's to come.

[Bill Myers 458]

17 hours ago, EdH said:

While I agree that Evernote on Windows could use some work, especially on the database format that simply is not up to the task, as both a Mac and Windows user, I much prefer the Windows version due to missing features on the Mac.

I don't use the Mac version, but I'm use a Windows PC as well as a Windows laptop, iOS (both an iPhone and and iPad), and an Android device (a Kindle). I also use the web version, albeit infrequently. And the one thing that drives me nuts is the differences between the various clients. For instance, the new web UI doesn't support notebook stacks so none of the stacks I have in shortcuts show up there anymore.

And I understand that the differences between Android and iOS operating systems will mean the Evernote versions for each won't be identical, right now they don't even look like distant cousins.

Personally, I'd love to see more uniformity between the various versions of Evernote so that I know what to expect regardless of what device I'm using. It's possible you and I won't agree on what features should be emphasized and which should be sunset, so the only way to resolve this is a good mud wrestling match.

I kid. Obviously Evernote isn't going to be able to please everyone. I expect no matter what direction they take, someone will be upset.

I just know from where I sit, I like the picture Small has painted with his blog post. Fingers crossed this comes to pass.

 

[JMichaelTX 4,117]

5 hours ago, Bill Myers said:

As I keep saying, none of this will matter if it isn't followed up by delivering results.

This can't be over emphasized.  Evernote has made some big promises in the past that they really didn't keep.  Let's hope Mr. Small can turn this around as well.

[DTLow 5,736]

23 hours ago, jefito said:

Minor correction -- it's SQLite, not MySQL.

Confirmed.  On a Mac it's a small SQLite database for the note metadada
The screenshot shows the database for my 12,000 notes.

 

[EdH 1,670]

On 2/1/2019 at 6:59 PM, jefito said:

Minor correction -- it's SQLite, not MySQL.

Yes, for the client you are right. At least the Windows client.

For the servers, MySQL... https://www.mysql.com/customers/view/?id=1211 & https://evernote.com/blog/whysql/ - but that has nothing to do with why it is so slow on the Windows platform. 

[User63 3]

On 1/23/2019 at 4:13 AM, jefito said:

."..spend most of their time here in the forums."

You need to reevaluate your use of your time, it's limited and it is what your life consists of. Your life is passing you by, right here, on the forum of a software company.

Wake up.

[jefito 5,589]

4 hours ago, User63 said:

You need to reevaluate your use of your time, it's limited and it is what your life consists of. Your life is passing you by, right here, on the forum of a software company.

Wake up.

Um, what you quoted ("spend most of their time here in the forums") simply refers to "most of" whatever time people choose to spend here, not that people spend "most of"  their time here. I know that I don't. Anyways, if you have actual questions about using Evernote, one of these people would gladly help you. If, as it seems, you'd rather be spending your valuable (?) time ineffectually trolling the forum here, then you can as easily be ignored. Your choice. I'd suggest waking up and reading your own "advice"...

[EdH 1,670]

Just add that user to your Ignore list @jefito. Their history on this forum has done nothing to assist other users, just criticize.

[jefito 5,589]

8 minutes ago, EdH said:

Just add that user to your Ignore list @jefito. Their history on this forum has done nothing to assist other users, just criticize.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm on  a 4-strike rule, because of a possibly misguided belief in common sense or redemption or something. It's a character flaw, I know.