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Feature request: check off box in options for new features


Don Dz

Idea

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Hello, I am requesting a check box in options for every new feature that changes the appearance of the program or the data, at the same time as the new feature is introduced, so the user has the option to turn it off. 

Preferably with the box unchecked by default, but on would be acceptable if this exists and is mentioned with the feature. 

A plus if this is also used for every new feature that changes the behavior and not just the appearance.

Thanks for listening.

If you agree, you may up vote on the top left of the screen.

✅?Apologies in advance if someone already beat me to this feature suggestion.

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On 9/12/2018 at 5:36 AM, Don Dz said:

I believe EN programmers have enough common sense to know when they maybe introducing a burden to users

Oh, we do. And we try to fight back. But when the decree comes down from above "Thou Shalt Do It THIS Way!", there's not much we can do except make you guys upset... Though sometimes it's ohs-and-ahs instead...

(And I will fight you do the death about putting in a toggle option on every new UI change! That means more than 2x the work - the old style, the new style, and a way to switch between. Oh, can you tell what my opinion is about A/B testing UIs?)

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Two points:

1. You don't want this. Not really, not for every user-visible feature and behavior. You don't know what you're asking for. It's all nice and appealing and user-friendly and all that, but it goes way deeper than that.

2. It's not going to happen, not to any great degree. To do so, would be a surefire way to increase development, QA, and support cost, for very user benefit and likely a fair bit of user confusion.

It's always fair to ask for things, but in this case, I'm confident in saying "don't hold your breath."

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1 hour ago, jefito said:

You don't know what you're asking for. It's all nice and appealing and user-friendly and all that, but it goes way deeper than that.

Thanks for your thoughts.  I do realize it may sound like I am asking to give the user the power to veto every shingle, every pebble of the program.  But to qualify  the request too much just to sound knowledgeable would just make it confusing and unreadable, thus defeating the purpose.   

I believe EN programmers have enough common sense to know when they maybe introducing a burden to users (as noted in some recent comments by dconnet), and to understand to what extent this request is feasible, if at all.

The fact that they introduced a new editor  full of serious bugs tells me they are trying to get better control of the features of the program, a step in the right direction, even if it felt at first like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Based on programs I have used for years,  it is my personal opinion they could offer users significantly more usability and appearance controls, as reflected on popular feature requests in the forums.  For example, I seriously doubt night mode or some control over colors is an unreasonably huge programming burden, but rather just a branding issue.

Thanks for listening.

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Key word in the OP is appearance.  Still a bit of a slippery slope, but things like the most recent title bolding bag of yuck would certainly qualify.  Some default spacings and fonts might as well.  ?‍♂️

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26 minutes ago, CalS said:

Key word in the OP is appearance.  Still a bit of a slippery slope, but things like the most recent title bolding bag of yuck would certainly qualify.  Some default spacings and fonts might as well.  ?‍♂️

Might I add, the fixed and unmovable New Note and All Notes buttons, as compared to the same in the toolbar, which are optional. 

I believe branding should be represented in default settings, rather than in fixed settings.

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On 9/12/2018 at 8:36 AM, Don Dz said:

Thanks for your thoughts.  I do realize it may sound like I am asking to give the user the power to veto every shingle, every pebble of the program.  But to qualify  the request too much just to sound knowledgeable would just make it confusing and unreadable, thus defeating the purpose. 

I would have thought that sounding knowledgeable would be a good goal. In any case, here's what happens to vague requests: because they're vague, they need specification, so off they go to some small group to discuss, and maybe a spec is written, which engenders more back-and-forth discussion with the devs, and the marketing folks and CTO and maybe CEO maybe need to get their 2 cents in, and months later, the thing just loses momentum, and nothing gets done for a long time, if at all. In other words, specificity really helps to make your feature requests more understandable, more digestible, and ultimately, more actionable.

On 9/12/2018 at 8:36 AM, Don Dz said:

I believe EN programmers have enough common sense to know when they maybe introducing a burden to users (as noted in some recent comments by dconnet), and to understand to what extent this request is feasible, if at all.

Which of their comments? I scanned recents ones and I didn't see anything that would indicate that this is a direction they're going in...

On 9/12/2018 at 8:36 AM, Don Dz said:

The fact that they introduced a new editor  full of serious bugs tells me they are trying to get better control of the features of the program, a step in the right direction, even if it felt at first like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Sure, and I appreciate that, but this is editor #3, or maybe 4 in the history of Evernote's Windows client, and there have been bugs all the way (notwithstanding the fact that CEF was introduced in large part to allow better common experience across Evernote's different platforms, and not merely to address bugs). But, to put it in context of  your request, this is a perfect exemplar for  what I'm trying to express. Should Evernote have kept the old editor as well as added the new one, and given users the choice to use one or the other? Trying to provide for that, all in the same executable would be a nightmare. They would never do it. You prefer (or can't work with) the new editor? Fine -- use an older version of Evernote. They won't be fixing bugs in that branch any more, but maybe it'll all work out until you see the new editor is acceptable to you.

On 9/12/2018 at 8:36 AM, Don Dz said:

Based on programs I have used for years,  it is my personal opinion they could offer users significantly more usability and appearance controls, as reflected on popular feature requests in the forums.

I want to emphasize that I am not against user options, where they make sense. It's a balance between flexibility and complexity. Complexity is costly to design, implement test, and support, and it can be more difficult for new users to take in. You have to draw the line somewhere, depending on what your target audience is. Where I work, our target market is mostly pretty technical, and we have lots of tweaks and levers in our software to that end. Evernote's is different; sore there is the the so-called "power user" class, but it needs to be easily approachable by less technical folks

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2 hours ago, jefito said:

I want to emphasize that I am not against user options, where they make sense. It's a balance between flexibility and complexity.

True, for sure.  Users tend to use as a norm the options they get from different products, rightfully or wrongfully.  Also, users are not particularly concerned with the difficulties of the provider.  So it can be a balance of flexibility, complexity and what the market norm is perceived to be.  And God knows I'm not going anywhere what the market norm is.  ?

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1 hour ago, dconnet said:

(And I will fight you do the death about putting in a toggle option on every new UI change! That means more than 2x the work - the old style, the new style, and a way to switch between. Oh, can you tell what my opinion is about A/B testing UIs?)

Don't worry, I don't see the vote counter going up anywhere fast.  My apologies in advance if the powers that be happen to like my idea enough to try to implement it.  ?

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2 hours ago, dconnet said:

Oh, we do. And we try to fight back. But when the decree comes down from above "Thou Shalt Do It THIS Way!", there's not much we can do except make you guys upset... Though sometimes it's ohs-and-ahs instead...

(And I will fight you do the death about putting in a toggle option on every new UI change! That means more than 2x the work - the old style, the new style, and a way to switch between. Oh, can you tell what my opinion is about A/B testing UIs?)

Oh people think that software development is just sitting on your but in cushy Aerons, tapping away with soft uncallused fingers, but no. It's a jungle out there,  man...

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21 minutes ago, jefito said:

Oh people think that software development is just sitting on your but in cushy Aerons, tapping away with soft uncallused fingers, but no. It's a jungle out there,  man...

I very much doubt anyone thinks that, at least no one in this discussion.  There are priorities, high priorities, and low priorities.  The developers determine which is which, all we users can do is wait and see, and participate in betas if we wish.

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9 minutes ago, jefito said:

Um, that was just kidding around... did I need to sprinkle on the emoji?!?!?

Sorry, it kinda sounded like a more emphatic version of the thing about knowing what I am talking about before posting a request, something I encounter too often in the forums.

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2 hours ago, Don Dz said:

Sorry, it kinda sounded like a more emphatic version of the thing about knowing what I am talking about before posting a request, something I encounter too often in the forums.

Oh, no prob -- I was just being a little faux melodramatic, following on the tone of dconnet's post. If I sounded a little punchy earlier on, it happens that I'm in the middle of a release cycle myself just now and that can make for some crankiness, so sorry for that, Anyway, the issue of how many levers and *****1 to give users to control application behavior is an interesting one, and there's no good answer that you can just crank out by formula. It's definitely fair game to push on it here with respect to Evernote's usability, but it does have implications that are not always obvious. Ultimately, though, you have a vision for ways to make Evernote better, and that's a good thing, and that's what the forum's here for., so carry on ..

1Ha-ha -- the forum has seen fit to censor out the word "k-n-o-b-s" It is to laugh.

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19 hours ago, Don Dz said:

There are priorities, high priorities, and low priorities.  The developers determine which is which

Um. No we don't. Product Managers do. We do try to influence them...

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3 hours ago, dconnet said:

Um. No we don't. Product Managers do. We do try to influence them...

Right, I keep thinking of people like Bill Gates, whom some people would debate whether he was really a developer, but I digress . . .

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2 hours ago, Don Dz said:

Right, I keep thinking of people like Bill Gates, whom some people would debate whether he was really a developer, but I digress . . .

Not sure what Bill Gates has to do with the topic at hand;, but the issue of whether or not he was a developer (by which I suppose you mean 'programmer') isn't particularly debatable. There's ample evidence testifying that indeed he was, and a good one, too But he was much better at being a capitalist, and stopped actively writing code for Microsoft early on in order to run the company. 

PMs  are in some sense developers anyways: they are certainly part of the development team, and though they may actually not engage in programming, they can certainly be ex-programmers, and the ability to be able to understand what the programmers are doing can be really useful to the running of the team. Most importantly though, they drive the development process, and once the debating is all done, and they make a decision, you need to either get it done or get out.

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23 hours ago, jefito said:

Not sure what Bill Gates has to do with the topic at hand;, 

The same thing you were apparently trying to do earlier, attempting to bring the discussion to some conclusion with a little humor, whether I was successful is another matter. 

You still seem a little grumpy . . .

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36 minutes ago, Don Dz said:

You still seem a little grumpy . . .

Having some moments currently. Last minute bugs that only show (as far as we know) on a  laptop that matches the one used by the company president (on which I can't build or debug on, either), late in the day on Friday, just a few days before major release can do that to a person. I didn't plan on working this weekend, that's for sure.  Fortunately, I think they're in hand, but they'll be tested hard when QA is back in session on Monday. I did get a decent bike ride in, and lobster lunch in between sessions today, and probably another, longer, ride tomorrow so things are looking up -- maybe I'll actually be ready to mingle among other humans soon... heh...

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