Tags and EN apps don't play well together

[suobs 6]

(See specific suggestions at the bottom of this message.)

I get how the tag approach works. It's not my preference, but I get it. The problems are that organizing with tags in the mobile or web apps is not up to speed. It's kind of dicey even in the desktop app.

This problem with tags in general comes out most clearly when using your existing tags (shown nested below in Tag VIew from a post in

For example for the set of nested tags shown in the screenshot above, when selecting a tag to apply to a note you would see ".NB.Business" and ".NB.NetSuite" as discrete tags at the same level, one near the top of the alpha list and the other much further down. There's no way to tell whether they are nested under other tags or each other or are at the same level. Worse, without scanning the entire list there's no way to know there's already the tag you need nested for example under ".NB.Business" or if it's somewhere else or if it doesn't even exist yet. ".NB.YB" would be way down the list and it's not clear if it's nested under another tag. Unless you have your list memorized it's chaotic and is certainly not amenable to staying organized when selecting tags if you don't use the structure/list every day.

"Flat" is the perfect word for it. If I'm filing using tags I haven't used in a couple of years, there's also no visual cue of where to look, made worse if the list is long. It's the old "where did I put it?" problem but compounded by the fact that you don't see the hierarchy when you file a note, so you don't get guidance of where you should put it when you file the note.  

Sure there are endless sub-workarounds that might involve typing a complete nested structure into the name of every nested tag but now you're getting ridiculous.  Isn't that what computers are for?  

If there are suggestions in this post, they are:

1. Fix apps so they work properly to choose tags easily and efficiently
2. An ability to create "parent tags" so that EN starts a title for tags nested under it so the nested tab name reflects the name of the parent tag. This is so they sort together in tag selction lists, without having to type the structure into the name
3. Fix apps to show tag nesting structure when selecting a tag to apply to a note

[tavor 667]

1 hour ago, jefito said:

If, however, you wish to join in the fun on the nested-notebook feature, that's a completely different issue, and there is at least one lengthy feature request for it, for which you are entirely welcome search for, and to add your vote and/or discussion points.

@JohnLongney, this is the place for notebook lovers to come bash their heads against the wall for the amusement of us tag lovers:

 

[suobs 6]

2 hours ago, jefito said:

If you want to discuss those or vote their idea up, then this is the place to do it.

I wasn't aware there is a form of voting?  By "liking" posts you mean?  

[jefito 5,587]

5 hours ago, suobs said:

I wasn't aware there is a form of voting?  By "liking" posts you mean?  

Top-left of the first page of this topic, to the left of the topic title. Two triangle-shaped controls, one for "vote up, the other for "remove your previous upvote". Only some forums are set up as voting forums. "Liking" posts is different; I don't know whether they matter much to Evernote.

Edit: note that you may not vote for a topic that your start, but other forum users may if they agree with it.

[DTLow 5,721]

15 hours ago, suobs said:

An ability to create "parent tags" so that starts a title for nested tags so when you nest another tab the name reflects the name of the parent tag so they sort together, without having to type the structure into the name

Perhaps a workaround; I simply prefix the tag name to reflect the parent tag
For example   Note_Types
                             Type-Receipt
                             Type-Reference
                                      Ref-Applescript
                                      Ref-Evernote

 

[JohnLongney 83]

Yes , workarounds are the way to go!  

because the apparent 'uneasiness' 

all boil down to the fact that tags do not substitute folders and subfolders (physical file management) and in consequence the beauty and ease of handling one knows from the software world outside of the EN micro cosmos cannot be had in Evernote.

Flaws are flaws, yes, but as long as the compensating factors outway, why indeed ditch the good parts? 

 

 

 

 

[DTLow 5,721]

9 hours ago, JohnLongney said:

all boil down to the fact that tags do not substitute folders

The issue being addressed is the support for hierarchies in the web and mobile platforms.

This is not related to the Tag/Notebook discussion
edited: see 

 

[suobs 6]

Thanks, that sort of works great. Only problem is they don't necessarily sort together when you view a selection list for choosing tags. Also, I am really just suggesting to automate the naming of nested tags to eliminate redundant typing.

[suobs 6]

1 hour ago, JohnLongney said:

all boil down to the fact that tags do not substitute folders and subfolders (physical file management) and in consequence the beauty and ease of handling one knows from the software world outside of the EN micro cosmos cannot be had in Evernote.

Is it possible to make a suggestion about hierarchical organization without getting editorials about the "beauty and ease" of free-form flat tag lists?  This post is a suggestion about improving EN's ability to create hierarchies within the constraints of its tag-based system, and facilitate the use of nested tags when selecting existing tags. It was posted in EN Feature Requests. There is nothing to debate here. 

BTW you're mistaken. Tags can be made to work better for folder-like, intuitive, hierarchical organization. EN is already halfway there. A few adjustments and they can keep both camps happy.

[JohnLongney 83]

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

The issue being addressed is the support for hierarchies in the web and mobile platforms.

This is not related to the Tag/Notebook discussion

They do relate, because the user, the human being, actually is not served well if the so-called web application is something else yet again. Reduced to core functions, because of device/environmental limitations, OK , (bearing in mind that every new generation of webservers and user devices bring down limitations). It seems to me that you @DTLow are not familiar with how other so-called web apps work in software environments where note taking with associated storage in the cloud would be regarded as nothing but a flea bite.

I speak from practical experience with software where indeed millions of users agree that one of the best features of the web app is the perfect integration and support of tagging. The bit of work you can do anywhere, limitation set by the actual screen size/resolution of the device used. Other improvements/corrections on files/notes by scaled-down tools is something else. Tagging does not require calibrated screen, nor fast internet connection. If you do not believe me just try other apps that support tagging. But please stop trying to narrow down tagging to a way which limits its use to 'forget about that'. 

[JohnLongney 83]

1 hour ago, suobs said:

Is it possible to make a suggestion about hierarchical organization without getting editorials about the "beauty and ease" of free-form flat tag lists?  This post is a suggestion about improving EN's ability to create hierarchies within the constraints of its tag-based system, and facilitate the use of nested tags when selecting existing tags. It was posted in EN Feature Requests. There is nothing to debate here. 

BTW you're mistaken. Tags can be made to work better for folder-like, intuitive, hierarchical organization. EN is already halfway there. A few adjustments and they can keep both camps happy.

Yes, there is one suggestion. Instead of a few adjustments copy the * looks and feel*successfully implemented by others and nobody will ever miss anything. Search based on tags works.

EOD from my side, I am capable of overcoming limitations. 

[jefito 5,587]

3 hours ago, JohnLongney said:

They do relate, because the user, the human being, actually is not served well if the so-called web application is something else yet again.

The original poster requested improvements to the Evernote tagging system. If you want to discuss those or vote their idea up, then this is the place to do it.  If, however, you wish to join in the fun on the nested-notebook feature, that's a completely different issue, and there is at least one lengthy feature request for it, for which you are entirely welcome search for, and to add your vote and/or discussion points.