Evernote for Windows 5.0.2 Discussion

[heather 604]

<off topic rant moved here: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/44048-who-do-these-evangelists-think-they-are/ >

[Rootman 1]

The installer for the 5.X version will NOT reinstall Evernote to the original location. I had previously installed Evernote to a separate encrypted drive years ago.

 

The installer for V5 automatic update will UNinstall it from the original location (in my case E:\Program Files\Evernote) and then reinstall it back to the C:\Program Files\Evernote. The exact same thing has happened on 3 computers I have updated this way. Will it allow me to choose the location if I uninstall and download the full installer manually?

 

I have also relocated my database to be on the encrypted E: drive, in one PC out of 3 it relocated the DB to the normal default location under \Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Evernote.

 

I have to add that I do NOT like the new interface.  Too much wasted space, note titles that scroll off the screen, the ugly flat style and funky icons.  Please don't pull a "Microsoft Windows 8" on us and leave this without a way to to go back to something like the older interface.  I've used Evernote for a years.  I even BOUGHT the app TWICE before it became a free and long before it became a cloud app.  This is perhaps the largest and worst change I've seen to the product.

[mikeinpcb 2]

I've noticed that the Search Bar intermittently changes length when Evernote 5.0.2.1392 is completely closed (as in "Quit Evernote") and then the program is restarted again in Windows.

 

When this happens and the Search Bar goes from "short" back to long (where the search bar takes up over half the toolbar space), it removes any toolbar icons that were previously added using right click and "Customize Toolbar..."    (NOTE: Support ticket submitted)

 

As for the new appearance/layout in version 5, I must say I'm not too keen on it. I've been using Evernote since version 2, back in 2006, and the colorful blue interface in v2 is still my favorite. I never really cared for the green in v3/4, but even that green was far better than the super-bland gray, flat UI in v5.

 

Despite these issues, I still think Evernote is an incredible product, and I'm sooooo glad it exists. Many Special Thanks to the Evernote Team!

[C6REW 416]

I've noticed that the Search Bar intermittently changes length when Evernote 5.0.2.1392 is completely closed (as in "Quit Evernote") and then the program is restarted again in Windows.

 

When this happens and the Search Bar goes from "short" back to long (where the search bar takes up over half the toolbar space), it removes any toolbar icons that were previously added using right click and "Customize Toolbar..."    (NOTE: Support ticket submitted)

 

As for the new appearance/layout in version 5, I must say I'm not too keen on it. I've been using Evernote since version 2, back in 2006, and the colorful blue interface in v2 is still my favorite. I never really cared for the green in v3/4, but even that green was far better than the super-bland gray, flat UI in v5.

 

Despite these issues, I still think Evernote is an incredible product, and I'm sooooo glad it exists. Many Special Thanks to the Evernote Team!

Hi Mike,

When you have made your changes, shut down Evernote by closing it down properly rather than clicking the 'x'. That way it keeps your settings.

Best regards

Chris

[idoc 400]

I absolutely love EN v4.6.2.  It does everything I've ever wanted it to and more.  Based on what I'm reading here I will hold off on upgrading to 5.0.

[magicRaul 1]

I have recorded a video with the loading behavior of notes for version 5 and version 4 (using the same notebooks in both tests). It can see that the response time is much greater in version 5. From my point of view, it is unacceptable for a quality program like evernote.

 

Because of this, I do not recommend the use of version 5 because it becomes very problematic to work with it.

 

https://www.dropbox....1008_213414.mp4

https://www.dropbox....1008_230616.mp4

 

I have tried to reinstall version 5 several times but this does not solve the problem.

 

I hope that evernote can solve this important problem soon.

[CGmcb 1]

dear evernote team!

 

i really love evernote- it made things really easy for me.

 

but i have to say i am totally unsatisfied with the new version for windows.

 

1. very confusing design. since i am a designer myself knowing about the trends of clean and uncluttered graphics i understand why you went for this, but it simply is kind of hard to use because it is hard to focus without propper graphic-frames holding topics together or without the use of some colors to group objects or topics within the ui. for me the new ui is a greyish, pale thing without enough contrast to make your way through having all the buttons and topics flying around only held together and grouped with grey hairlines and super-subtle changes of the greyish shading-intensity.

i love the aesthetics of the new ios7, and i know that you followed the trends- but the ui of evernote 5 for windows simply slowed down my working speed quite a lot- and that is the point where i don't care about stylish, thin, minimalistic design any more.

my suggestion is, keep the minimalistic design- this is what people like these days but please drop in some fresh colors at least to make it easier to focus and work with this tool!

 

2. i am using evernote for business purpose- therefore i share notebooks. since there is no specific color for the shared notebooks any more it is very difficult and time-consuming to check on which books are already shared-ones and which not. please reinvent a clear marking (graphic or color) for shared notebooks and non-shared notebooks on the left side in list view

 

3. i work with MANY different books, having very similar note-topics at he same time and using quite similar headlines within compeltely different project-books. so it is competely unnecessary for me having all the "suggested relevant notes" displayed directly below the actual note itself. i dont want to see those suggestions because in 99% they are completely useless for me. please add a function to turn those off. for example i safe phoneprotocolls within every project book, so i don't want to see other phoneprotocolls of other project-books being displayed as relevant notes, just because of the title, this is only messing up my focus on the actual note itself having all those useless sugestions and information displayed.

(In the case i simply didn't get it how to turn it off and it already works please let me know how to do it)

 

I do hope that the next verion will be as great to use as the previous ones again!

Thank you!

Chris

[jefito 5,589]

3. i work with MANY different books, having very similar note-topics at he same time and using quite similar headlines within compeltely different project-books. so it is competely unnecessary for me having all the "suggested relevant notes" displayed directly below the actual note itself. i dont want to see those suggestions because in 99% they are completely useless for me. please add a function to turn those off. for example i safe phoneprotocolls within every project book, so i don't want to see other phoneprotocolls of other project-books being displayed as relevant notes, just because of the title, this is only messing up my focus on the actual note itself having all those useless sugestions and information displayed.

(In the case i simply didn't get it how to turn it off and it already works please let me know how to do it)

Unchecking View / Show Related Notes works for me.

[mikeinpcb 2]

 

I've noticed that the Search Bar intermittently changes length when Evernote 5.0.2.1392 is completely closed (as in "Quit Evernote") and then the program is restarted again in Windows.

 

When this happens and the Search Bar goes from "short" back to long (where the search bar takes up over half the toolbar space), it removes any toolbar icons that were previously added using right click and "Customize Toolbar..."    (NOTE: Support ticket submitted)

 

As for the new appearance/layout in version 5, I must say I'm not too keen on it. I've been using Evernote since version 2, back in 2006, and the colorful blue interface in v2 is still my favorite. I never really cared for the green in v3/4, but even that green was far better than the super-bland gray, flat UI in v5.

 

Despite these issues, I still think Evernote is an incredible product, and I'm sooooo glad it exists. Many Special Thanks to the Evernote Team!

Hi Mike,

When you have made your changes, shut down Evernote by closing it down properly rather than clicking the 'x'. That way it keeps your settings.

Best regards

Chris

 

Thanks, Chris. It looks like exiting Evernote from the main menu (rather than clicking the "X" and then selecting "Quit Everenote") solved my intermittent problem.

 

Mike

[DRRichards 1]

Long time user using EN for GTD. I am sick and tired of EN's poorly thought out and poorly tested releases. This 5 upgrade completely blew my GTD system out of the water. I lost the very useful tag sort feature, thumbnails, ...... I agree with the groundswell of complainers here. I feel that EN is abandoning their fundamental base willing to abandon their hard earned good reviews chasing after every sparkly they can imagine. They just don't seem to understand that the devil lies in the details when people make the leap of faith to entrust all their data to a system. I worked in DP/IT for 30 years and can't comprehend how this bunch cowboy programmers and lax testers can be allowed to run rampant. I have rolled back to the latest 4 release and plan on staying on that functional (for me) release for good if necessary. I also verified the export facility and downloaded my data just in case EN decides to willy-nilly cut my rope. 

[Moe Notes 14]

Long time user using EN for GTD. I am sick and tired of EN's poorly thought out and poorly tested releases. This 5 upgrade completely blew my GTD system out of the water. I lost the very useful tag sort feature, thumbnails, ...... I agree with the groundswell of complainers here. I feel that EN is abandoning their fundamental base willing to abandon their hard earned good reviews chasing after every sparkly they can imagine. They just don't seem to understand that the devil lies in the details when people make the leap of faith to entrust all their data to a system. I worked in DP/IT for 30 years and can't comprehend how this bunch cowboy programmers and lax testers can be allowed to run rampant. I have rolled back to the latest 4 release and plan on staying on that functional (for me) release for good if necessary. I also verified the export facility and downloaded my data just in case EN decides to willy-nilly cut my rope. 

 

Thank you!

 

Coming from another paying premium member of many years, I couldn't quite put all my frustrations into words that version 5 on Windows activated within me. You put into words better than I could (although I could write a novel).

 

From usability...to design...it's just bad. And it's bad in ways that are DEAD OBVIOUS to a user who's serious about trusting this app and uses it to "remember everything".

 

I really wonder how the chain of command works at Evernote and how they manage VARYING OPINIONS from different sources. Is it a top-down dictatorship? What really motivates and influences the decision-making?

 

And I've been wanting and waiting for reminders for so long -- but with all the other very core and basic USABILITY problems (some old, some new), I don't even care anymore.

 

Downgrading to v4.7...I'll keep using sticky notes for reminders for now.

[Moe Notes 14]

Whoa! My level of happiness and productivity just immediately shot up by downgrading to 4.7...

 

When I...

1. saw my toolbar with all my custom shortcuts & searches...
2. saw the title of notes prominently displayed at the top in a different font and color...
3. saw no more massive amounts of gray space at the bottom of notes and all around the app...
4. experienced the speed of accessing notes that I was familiar with...
5. saw the subtle but noticeable color contrast throughout the app and icons...

I fell back in love. 

 

To those who don't like version 5 so much (intentional understatement) -- do NOT hesitate to revert back if you're considering it, really just do it.

 

Corporations, developers, managers do not have all the answers to what works best for you or me. I appreciate and love Evernote for the vital functions it provides – but ultimately I'm in control of my experience, so as long as we have the option to downgrade take advantage.

 

I would check off "fix Evernote frustrations" of my to do list -- but version 4.7 doesn't have todos

[Moe Notes 14]

OK. last post in this series...I know this will be theraputic for some so I post it.

 

 

Umm...no thanks

 

 

[imjustagirl 4]

How do I go back to previous version?

The new evernote is ever Blah. Everything all blended in like finding Waldo. Can not find anything. Are you being google like? or making the free version so bad that we need to pay for premium version to see how the rich lives. Whose crazy idea is this. Can we have choices ?

Really really missed the better previous version.

The related suggestions features is a waste of space, not even sure how and  why they related.

Is this like plastic surgery? We screwed and no way back? Should leave well enough alone.

[Moe Notes 14]

How do I go back to previous version?

 

There's a link in this thread, I think on page 4. Or you could just google "download old versions of software".

 

Luckily Evernote is one of those applications where we can go backwards and everything still works.

[imjustagirl 4]

Thank You but not sure which link you mentioned. I just need the one prior to the screwed up one.  One would think with all the complaints they got, Evernote would put it on the top to stop all the complaining.

Don't they use BETA testers prior to releasing it ? Or tell us how togo back if we don't like it prior to sending out those updated link.

 

They are evernote likes out there, please be very careful.

MOD. please post link.

[idoc 400]

To be fair to Evernote: Whenever any company comes out with a new version of their software their are always a lot of people who will howl in outrage at the new version.  I"ve seen this with almost everything I"ve ever used.  Quicken, Quickbooks, Windows 7, android platforms, IOS7 etc etc.  This is to be expected as people will initially struggle with a new iteration of something they were familiar with.  However, in most of these cases people will eventually understand that the changes were for the best and there were very good reasons for them.  For example, despite the howls that came with windows 7, there are very few people today that wouldn't admit that it's far better than previous versions.  My gut feeling is that what I'm seeing with Evernote is partially due to this knee-jerk phenomenon.  However, I would get worried if this doesn't abate wtihin the next few months.  If the complaints continue then it will mean a true failed version rather than a knee-jerk issue.  I, for one, will not be upgrading but will follow the forums carefully to see how people are reacting.  I've done this for many other types of software/platforms and find it a rather reliable indicator for success.  I anticipate that Evernote will iron out some of the issues over the next few months, and then we'll have to wait and see if this interface unltimately works or fails.

[Perfect Faro 14]

idoc: You seem to be missing the fact that people are not only upset about the fact that the design was changed, but rather that the new products simply don't work. In the vast majority of the cases you mention, the reactions were to the design changes rather than the fact that the products didn't work properly: very few companies roll out a new product without adequate testing and feedback. Unfortunately, Evernote is apparently NOT the type of company that makes sure its products work properly before bringing them out. We first saw this with the new web clipper, which came out a month ago and STILL doesn't work properly. Now, the new Windows version of the desktop client not only has questionable design decisions, but also doesn't perform as well as the previous version. You're correct that many people don't react well to change, but NOBODY reacts well to broken or non-functioning products. It's abundantly clear that neither the web clipper nor the desktop client underwent adequate testing, and what you're seeing now is the predicable result of people being outraged that something that used to work well has been rendered slower, non-functional, or some combination of the two. In my opinion, Evernote gets a pass for the design decisions, but the lack of testing and quality control is inexcusable.

[cwb 225]

Bah. I'm not sure you use as much software as you think you do.

Nothing these days ships bug free.

That said I'm also not seeing many of the issues in my personal mac's and PC's for EN and webclipper that others are complaining about. Nor have I had a single complaint through our IT department from the Evernote users.

I think people may be hitting themselves hard on the shoals of expectations that software will remain constant and/or adapt to how they want to use it.

I find it a much easier time with a large point release to let go of my preconceptions, treat it almost like a new product and _discover_ how the app wants me to use it.

It takes a little time (but less than commanding it to do my bidding in forum posts) but it's much more friction free.

I get that the GTD'ers (of which I am one) may be the most entrenched to workflow change (in a "10 minutes until judge Wapner" sense). But that's not Evernotes problem.

Here's the tough pill. Evernote will never be "that tool" anymore.

You may or may not know the tool in and out (but there is plenty of noise asking for things that are already in the product or complaining about issues that aren't). But you very likely don't know joe average of the 9 million plus user base.

That user will dumb the useful complexity right out of a service.

Evernote is a casualty of its own success.

9 million freemium users drive a totally different product direction than services starting in the $50+/month range.

[Perfect Faro 14]

"Bah"? Where are you posting from: Victorian England? And what does "I'm not sure you use as much software as you think you do" even mean? Here's a tip: if your point depends on describing the characteristics of people you don't even know, you probably have no idea what you're talking about.

 

No one said anything about products being bug-free. But most products at least work; the ones that don't usually receive a great deal of criticism, as Evernote is finding out. Of course, there are always the fan-boys who will argue that their favorite product is great, no matter what; sound like anyone we know?

[C6REW 416]

New version not only works fine for me, but better than the old version, so not sure where '...the new products simply don't work...' comes from.

 

I have to agree with cwb here.

 

I think people may be hitting themselves hard on the shoals of expectations that software will remain constant and/or adapt to how they want to use it.
I find it a much easier time with a large point release to let go of my preconceptions, treat it almost like a new product and _discover_ how the app wants me to use it.
It takes a little time (but less than commanding it to do my bidding in forum posts) but it's much more friction free.
 

 

 

Regards

 

 

Chris

[Perfect Faro 14]

Did you miss all the posts detailing how the web clipper still isn't functioning properly? Or this very thread, where people have said the program isn't working for them? Whatever, I guess so long as it's working for you, there must not be a problem.

[C6REW 416]

Definitely working for me, so I will re phrase your comment, 'I have no problem'.

 

Best regards

 

Chris

[BetaGrl 0]

Ok so I'm not really a forum person - but this seemed the best thing to do. I very recently updated the Evernote client not realizing what I was getting myself into. I read through this thread and I am happy I'm not alone and hopefully one more voice will indicate that there are problems in the UI which need to be addressed.

 

First response was sort of panic as EVERYTHING seemed to have changed. I couldn't find the New Note button. I couldn't find my notes. Panic panic . . . 

I figured out how to make a new note and calmed down a bit. I figure I'll learn the new layout and be okay. I also noticed quickly that the shared notebooks no longer show icons quickly telling me what they are. I did figure out where it shows me if a notebook is shared, but it's a little annoying not to see it quickly. I can live without it, even though I don't like it that way.

 

I also had a big problem with date being hidden in the "i" info box. That box is also far too big. I did finally stumble upon finding the date more conveniently by clicking on the blank space where I expected tags to be. So I'm calm and okay with it although I don't like the date disappearing behind the formatting buttons. 

 

 

I needed to look at my usage for the month because some months I will take it up to the 1GB, some months I buy another GB, and sometimes I don't use much of the space at all. In the old layout there was a nice little graphic that I could keep a rough watch on as I use the client. Then if I wanted specifics I would just click it and there was all the info I need. Hiding this option in the Tools menu takes away the convenience and transparency of the graphic, and adds a click to the flow. 

 

I don't like how the title is displayed. It doesn't feel like a title. It does look slicker but it is obscure.

 

So far this new one seems to add clicks for things. More clicks is generally a bad thing. I'm going to stick with it for a little bit, but if too much more gets in my way, I'm going to be downloading the older version and going back to it until things get figured out. I love Evernote and I hope that this UI will be improved upon to have a faster flow rather than the reverse which seems to be the case so far. 

 

The 4 UI was so much more compact so I could see everything at a glance. I like to see EVERYTHING at once and I don't like clicking to find data like my usage, or small note info. So far I'm not seeing any really positive things to the newest version. 

 

Looking forward to things being better. 

[aly24j 0]

I updated my Evernote without a doubt (as I always did when there was a new version)...And was shocked to find out new toolbar was almost useless (I loved the tags-notes drag&drop system and kept all my shortcuts on that bar, hiding the left panel).
After reading here I realized I could revert with no damage and so I re-installed a previous version (4.5.8...). I'm so glad I did it!!

[jbenson2 2,147]

I updated my Evernote without a doubt (as I always did when there was a new version)...And was shocked to find out new toolbar was almost useless (I loved the tags-notes drag&drop system and kept all my shortcuts on that bar, hiding the left panel).

After reading here I realized I could revert with no damage and so I re-installed a previous version (4.5.8...). I'm so glad I did it!!

 

I've learned from past experience that it is safer and more productive to just sit on the sidelines for a few weeks before upgrading and let other users work out the QC problems with Evernote. My data is too important to risk.

 

I'll continue to watch the comments in the forum and after the dust settles, then do the upgrade.

I've got a calendar entry for Dec 1, to upgrade from version 4.7 to 5.2 (5.3 is a beta which does not count)

This process avoids a lot of the uncaught initial bugs and frustrations.

[cwb 225]

When you mouse over the scroll bar, you get a dimmer highlight of the entire bar area, and when you go away, you're left with just the darker gray floating without context. I don't think that's great design.

Ah. You might try things on a Mac then. The scroll bar goes away altogether unless you happen to be hovering over that area. The difference being it gives way to being usable for content rather than dedicating unusable gutter space when not scrolling.

[Jeff510 95]

 

When you mouse over the scroll bar, you get a dimmer highlight of the entire bar area, and when you go away, you're left with just the darker gray floating without context. I don't think that's great design.

Ah. You might try things on a Mac then. The scroll bar goes away altogether unless you happen to be hovering over that area. The difference being it gives way to being usable for content rather than dedicating unusable gutter space when not scrolling.

 

I don't like that either. I like to see some indication of how much content is there. 

 

Plus, I don't care for the Mac OS and ecosystem.

[cwb 225]

I don't like that either. I like to see some indication of how much content is there. 

 

Plus, I don't care for the Mac OS and ecosystem.

Somehow I knew you wouldn't...

 

[in a borg-like voice] Resistance is futile...

Windows is taking end user devices and ecosystem far more in the Apple direction with each year.

 

Likewise Windows 8 has much more areas where the default is for the scroll bar to be invisible until you start a scrolling action.

Contextual controls overlay and appear as needed and then go away to leave the focus on the content.

 

At least you'll know that these UI changes aren't coming out of thin air, or merely the minds of Evernote devs.

Windows XP/7 users may just be the last the become aware that landscape is changing.  And perhaps why the Evernote V5 rollout many months earlier to Mac users didn't have most of the UI complaints we see on the windows side of the forums.

 

And ever more Evernote users are going to wonder if Evernote's UI was not falling in line with all their other Windows 8/Windows Surface/Windows Phone and Mac/iOS apps.

Expecting the UI to look like a Windows 7 app in 2010 will be a difficult notion to cling to.

[jefito 5,589]

Oh, there were *plenty* of complaints about the Mac V5 rollout. Also the iOS V5 rollout, as well, if I remember correctly.

Getting used to the UI chrome aspects (new scrollbars, etc) hasn't been that hard for me, in fact, I barely noticed. With respect to some of the actual functional aspects (location of the search control, etc.), I do have some problems.

[Jeff510 95]

 

I don't like that either. I like to see some indication of how much content is there. 

 

Plus, I don't care for the Mac OS and ecosystem.

Somehow I knew you wouldn't...

 

Because we're in the Windows forum maybe?

 

Expecting the UI to look like a Windows 7 app in 2010 will be a difficult notion to cling to.

I don't. But I have opinions on a few of the design elements, and I expressed them. Overall, I like it, and even the things I don't like aren't deterrents to me in using the product. But whatever may be within the realm of the app designer to improve upon, I can't expect that to happen without providing some honest feedback.

[cwb 225]

Oh, there were *plenty* of complaints about the Mac V5 rollout. Also the iOS V5 rollout, as well, if I remember correctly.

Oh sure.  But quantify "plenty".  A little difficult with the available tools in the forum.

In terms of quantity, the Evernote for Mac 5.0.0 thread went on for 183 posts/10 pages.  And that's the forth longest thread in the entire Mac branch.

The v5 discussion for windows is already, in half the time, the second longest thread in the Windows branch at 18 pages and 360 replies.

On the iOS branch, apart from the "why no list view" thread, the next longest thread is about the 4.3 release.

 

Subjectively it feels far more mired in topics of UI shading, thickness, object placement. 

 

It'd be handy to have Evernote tools for the forums...

ZowInsights lets you run analytics on your Evernote data on your ipad.  I wish there were more like tools for Desktop and online datasets.

 

[Jeff510 95]

 

In terms of quantity, the Evernote for Mac 5.0.0 thread went on for 183 posts/10 pages.  And that's the forth longest thread in the entire Mac branch.

The v5 discussion for windows is already, in half the time, the second longest thread in the Windows branch at 18 pages and 360 replies.

On the iOS branch, apart from the "why no list view" thread, the next longest thread is about the 4.3 release.

 

Statistics are meaningless without context.

 

How many forum users are OSX users? Windows users? How many of each use Evernote desktop software?

 

How many posts are complaints?

 

How many are repeats or agreement about the same complaints?

 

How many posts are off topic or off on a tangent like discussing forum statistics? 

[jefito 5,589]

Oh, there were *plenty* of complaints about the Mac V5 rollout. Also the iOS V5 rollout, as well, if I remember correctly.

Oh sure.  But quantify "plenty".  A little difficult with the available tools in the forum.

In terms of quantity, the Evernote for Mac 5.0.0 thread went on for 183 posts/10 pages.  And that's the forth longest thread in the entire Mac branch.

It's a long thread. That counts as "plenty" to me, and that's all I was saying. No need to do qualitative analysis on the thing (and no need to figure out the relative numbers of Windows vs Mac users, etc. etc.). It's a long thread.

[cwb 225]

Statistics are meaningless without context.

You're welcome to contribute to the context and substance.

I'm just saying both my recollection and a quick review of the history seems to show the UI minutia related threads trailed off pretty quickly for other platforms.

If one wants to take issue with that, you're welcome to put more search effort into it than I just did with what's available.

Debating without adding additional substance or data would also be meaningless.

[Jeff510 95]

 

Statistics are meaningless without context.

You're welcome to contribute to the context and substance.

I'm just saying both my recollection and a quick review of the history seems to show the UI minutia related threads trailed off pretty quickly for other platforms.

If one wants to take issue with that, you're welcome to put more search effort into it than I just did with what's available.

 

Nope. I really don't care that much. You offered the "evidence." I'm just saying there's nothing informative about it, nor is there any conclusion to draw from it. That's all. If you want to make a point about it, you'll have to do the detailed legwork. But it's not worth it anyway.

[cwb 225]

It's a long thread. That counts as "plenty" to me, and that's all I was saying. No need to do qualitative analysis on the thing (and no need to figure out the relative numbers of Windows vs Mac users, etc. etc.). It's a long thread.

Plenty of complaints yes. But you quoted "plenty" from my sentence. I didn't say there weren't plenty of complaints. I specifically narrowed on "UI complaint" minutia.

So yes, one would need to parse the threads to see how much of a thread was devoted to feature breakage vs. feature behavior change complaints, vs. UI.

All that to support my original guess, that a Mac user is by nature a little further down the road to UI newness than an XP, Windows 7 user.

They aren't as likely to notice or care about changes to scroll bars.

An iOS 7 user, Microsoft Surface, and newer Win8 users, aren't as likely complain as much about UI flatness.

These are things that are ubiquitous at the system level.

They inform the direction of the apps running on them.

So then we see this convergence in the UI's for multi-platform apps, where current UI guidelines (whether they are good or not) inform changes to revisions of the apps we're using. It could be conserving development effort, or it could be developers buy-in to the UI directions.  But the point remains then to be asked, should there be an Evernote Client version which conforms to the Win Xp/Win7 mindset.

 

It could be worse, and some get their wish, and Evernote was a java client with one il-fitting UI to fit all platform apps.

 

[cwb 225]

Nope. I really don't care that much. You offered the "evidence." I'm just saying there's nothing informative about it, nor is there any conclusion to draw from it. That's all. If you want to make a point about it, you'll have to do the detailed legwork. But it's not worth it anyway.

 

 

A shame perhaps it was not worth not letting it pass by then.

(matching condescending retort withheld - barely)

[andyCanvas 1]

The new editor UI seems to be a skeuomorph of a note card or something. The extra white space is distracting and unproductive, especially if my notes have indented computer code. 

 

Can there please be a "classic" UI mode?

 

[Jeff510 95]

A shame perhaps it was not worth not letting it pass by then.

(matching condescending retort withheld - barely)

When you say you intended to be condescending, then you've gone ahead and done it, so congratulations. Intent received.

If you make an assertion, and then try to use data to back it up that doesn't do anything of the sort, then be prepared to have that data questioned. Otherwise, I agree. It's a shame it was not worth letting it pass by...

[cwb 225]

It's a shame it was not worth letting it pass by...

Here's how it's done:

[jefito 5,589]

Just a point of order: let's keep the conversation on topic, please. Thanks.

[AllenLook 5]

I've been Premium for a couple years-ish, and was getting pretty good use out of Evernote.  The version 5 interface has really handicapped it for me though.  I can't tell where screen elements are, like the scroll bar in snippet view, especially if my laptop isn't at exactly the right angle, because the colors and contrasts are too similar.  There's not even a vertical line to help suggest where it *might* be, and I find my eye drawn to the vertical seperator between the snippet list and the document preview window because it *looks* like a scroll bar.

 

I also miss the little arrow that used to point to my default notebook - now I have to scan up and down the folder list to find it and that's getting *really* frustrating.  I have a lot of documents and a lot of notebooks.  I very much preferred the old folder list's appearance.

 

I still get good use of the search function, and I rely on Evernote to be able to find text snippets quickly in really large PDFs, but overall I think that for me the interface change is a big huge step back, and I'd like the option to restore at least some of the old interface features.

[Moe Notes 14]

Since we're so OT...

 

[rant]

 

Why Evernote (or the forums) attracts this unique brand of anti-social wierdos is beyond me.

 

It's an awesome app. I love it and use it daily on 3 devices. I'm no fan of version 5 (as my earlier posts show), but I ain't going nowhere. I still recommend it anytime the topic comes up.

 

But the general vibe on these forums sucks. Like it's some pimply teenagers getting their need for significance  met on here with the non-stop snarky comments that aren't even funny. I really wouldn't expect that energy from a professional/productivity app such as this.

 

Worst yet, it's not the newbies coming out the closet with the nonsense...often its the ones with the highest post count and special titles. Scary.

 

[/rant]

[jefito 5,589]

@Moe Notes: my request was intended to try pull things back on topic, not to open it up for rants, so again, let's try to keep the conversation on topic, please. Thank you.

[JSB-FR 14]

I agree, we all love the product, and that's probably why this new version feels like such a disappointment, and creates such reactions.

 

I still didn't take time to roll back even though the features and design on this new version really make me cringe every time I open it. Apart from the synch speed which is awesome, the search bar and functions, the left menu, the bookmarks, bleh, I'm just too lazy to start a recovering procedure and I can work around the missing features even though it takes me more time to get to my notes, titles, etc. but I do trust the people at EN to ship us an improved version soon.

[Xabi 7]

Guys, has anyone found this bug in 5.0.2?  This has never happened to me in the past, and it only happens with certain attached PDFs intermittently

 

I double-click on a PDF, and I get a popup saying:

 

"There was an error opening this document.  The File cannot be found"

[Radiophile 16]

Quoting myself from my post early in this thread:

...some long-present annoyances with the text editor have been finally fixed. No longer does the position of a long note pop to the start every time I make an edit near its end. No longer do long notes scroll more than one page at a time when I use my mouse wheel (which is set to scroll one page at a time). And, wonder of wonders, it looks like the spell-check is now actually usable; I can type THe and get The at the top of the list of suggested corrections (previously, the misspelled THe would produce the following list of suggestions: He, T HE, THC, Te, Tee. Unbelievably bad, it was. Much better now!)...

 

I was wrong when I wrote most of the above. I have discovered that the business of note position "popping" to the top of a long note when I change something near the end, happens intermittently in both v4.6.7 and 5.0.2. So, no improvement there. Same with mouse wheel scrolling. In some notes it scrolls nicely one page at a time; in others it scrolls more than one page at a time. This pretty much makes mouse wheel scrolling useless in a note body. I have had to get in the habit of using the scroll bar since the wheel behaves inconsistently. I thought it was fixed in v5 but it turns out that it happens in v4 and v5; no improvement there either.

 

That leaves the spell checker, which is truly much improved in v5. Despite the better spell checker, I've spent almost 3 weeks trying without success to get used to the v5 UI downgrades (I agree with most of the issues raised by others in this thread). New is not always better. I have reverted back to 4.6.7.8409, and will stay there as long as I can, or until a usable new version emerges.

[segando 0]

Dear Evernote,

 

today I upgraded to the latest build (5.0.2.1332) and all of a sudden I can`t show the notes associated with tags showing up in the search result (search function in the upper right corner)

 

I do a search query and a drop down menu with all the tags show up and I click one of them and none of the associated notes show up...

 

this is a major issue, please see what you can do to fix this... Basically I can`t see my notes by using tags (although my tags/saved searches on the shortcuts works fine)

 

thank you.

 

Seriously, we`ve had like 3-4 releases since I adressed this issue back in september. I upgraded to the latest buid today and this bug is still there! This is a major issue for many users of Evernote. Please fix this.

 

Thank you Evernote.

[cwb 225]

can you post an example search?  I can't duplicate that in 1392 and the latest 5.0.3.1614

[lenarr 27]

Still running EN 4.6.7, and after reading these comments -- which again dissuaded me from upgrading -- I'm wondering:

 

Did EN conduct any usability testing with power users? Namely, with those of us who pay you yearly for more intensive use of your product?

 

There are too many principles of good and efficient design that were broken with EN5. Basic knowledge about cognitive psychology and interface design appears to be lacking. EN4 is much better than EN5 in that respect.

 

I'm not affiliated with the Nielsen Norman Group, merely someone who's taken some of their workshops and who's aware of cognitive loads that different design decisions impose.

 

I'm begging you to run to NNG - http://www.nngroup.com/ - for a consult about your new user interface.

 

Please pay attention to what power users have been saying on these boards. In sum: the interface is horrific to deal with. White on white, dead space, scrolling everywhere, discontinued capabilities regarding organizing data, visual clutter, lost icons, lost thumbnails, etc.

 

Some of these are dealbreakers for me. I'll continue with 4 until 5 becomes usable. I'll gladly forfeit highlighting and reminders in exchange for an interface that makes sense.

 

I say this with love and appreciation for your team. But this is NOT the best that Evernote can do.

 

Lena

[segando 0]

can you post an example search?  I can't duplicate that in 1392 and the latest 5.0.3.1614

I just uploaded a video on youtube to explain what`s actually happening when I search for a tag and then try to click on that tagresult.

 

 

(use fullscreen please)

 

thanks.

[cwb 225]

 

I just uploaded a video on youtube to explain what`s actually happening when I search for a tag and then try to click on that tagresult.

 

 

 

Ok, I see what you're saying.

I'd submit a support request because I think that's unique to you.

My tag searches (for the same tag no less) work fine in the same scenario.

I wonder if you have another PC you can try that on and see if it's account specific or PC specific.  And/OR try it in the online version of Evernote (which also works fine on that tag search).

[jefito 5,589]

 

 

I just uploaded a video on youtube to explain what`s actually happening when I search for a tag and then try to click on that tagresult.

 

 

 

Ok, I see what you're saying.

I'd submit a support request because I think that's unique to you.

My tag searches (for the same tag no less) work fine in the same scenario.

I wonder if you have another PC you can try that on and see if it's account specific or PC specific.  And/OR try it in the online version of Evernote (which also works fine on that tag search).

 

No, this is not unique to segando. This behavior has been reported by multiple people, and I can replicate it readily, too. A similar problem occurs with a notebook selected from that dropdown menu, also by recent report.

[hkmk23 0]

New to the forum, but old user of Evernote. is there a quick and easy way to go back to the version 4 interface, I just do not like the IOS7 look alike all in black and white?

[cwb 225]

*NOW* count me in...

I had not run list view since upgrading v5.

I tend to card view.

 

I double checked the behavior in card view.

Confirmed that clicking my evernote tag produced just the set of 35 evernote tags.

 

Then switched to list view (as per your video). 

Clicking on my "evernote" tag in the search box now no longer selects those, but a list of 158 notes containing "evernote".  Just as in your video.

 

Reverting the card view and the broken behavior remains.

And so does my point I guess.

This wasn't a universal bug affecting all.  We tend to get myopic and throw up our hands and assume everyone is seeing the same thing.  Just as I was assuming the mentioned feature was working for all.

So we do benefit from trying to duplicate each others rants and posting results

 

That said, I wasn't relying on that either.

I'm still old school and use the search grammar.

 

So if I'm looking for tags, I put tag:evernote in the search box.

 

That still produces the expected 35 note selection, in my case.

[Andwin 0]

I hate the all-gray program window in Evernote 5.0.2 for Windows, and also the Android version is mostly gray - just one green bar on the top.  It's very depressing.  Some color, please!!

[childay 2]

Since "ugrading" to EN 5 (now 5.0.3), EN is much slower.  It flickers and lags when I click on notes, particularly those with attachments.  I have many notes with PDF attachments.  Eventually, it will display the pdf correctly but it takes 1-2 seconds at times.  There are also issues scrolling to the bottom of notes, where the bottom of notes / related notes lag and I get weird graphical errors.  This Is on an essentially new laptop, windows 8.1 (also happened on 8).  Any suggestions?

[cwb 225]

Definitely client level.

While I "broke" my work instance by switching to list view (and back)...

Another laptop instance (never having used list view) continues to work fine.  Both running 5.0.3.1614

 

The difference is merely that clicking a tag on one, adds it to the filter by tag selection above the center notes section on one instance, but not on the other instance

You can still always add the tag directly instead in the tag filter above the notes.

Or specify "tag:" in the prefix to remove ambiguity.

[TerryP 3]

I was getting continual "not responding" Evernote hangs. Tried uninstall - re-installing, no joy. Just downgraded to 4.6.7 and joy is happening again. I feel like my vision has improved by 100% or so. 

 

Please, please give us some ability to tune the UI contrast a bit. The new UI is like staring into a lightbulb for me. If you will do that I swear I will learn to tolerate the other imperfections added to new UI.

 

Other than that - I lover Evernote.  

[groovebak 20]

Does anyone have a fix for EN crashing every time I try to select a notebook from the dropdown menu? It's incredibly annoying. Thanks!

[FactMan 196]

Does anyone have a fix for EN crashing every time I try to select a notebook from the dropdown menu? It's incredibly annoying. Thanks!

It doesn't crash for me, so no. The usual "fix" involves uninstalling then reinstalling, preferably with a reboot in between. Whether it will work in your case, I have no idea. But I am using 5.0.3.1614 (Public).

[groovebak 20]

 

Does anyone have a fix for EN crashing every time I try to select a notebook from the dropdown menu? It's incredibly annoying. Thanks!

It doesn't crash for me, so no. The usual "fix" involves uninstalling then reinstalling, preferably with a reboot in between. Whether it will work in your case, I have no idea. But I am using 5.0.3.1614 (Public).

 

The problem doesn't seem like it's going away without a reinstall, so I'm about to do that. Thanks!

[groovebak 20]

The reinstall didn't help. I wish V4 had reminders and highlighting--and I would happily kiss V5's dull grayness, crashes, stalls, and general bugginess, goodbye.

[rbaustin 0]

Worst upgrade since windows vista.  If I had known the issues with this upgrade it would have never happened, unfortunately I upgraded.  It has completely ruined my outlook.  Put in support request, never received a response.  Every time I launch outlook it crashes, solely due to evernote placing a com-add-in into outlook, something I never asked it to do nor did I want it too.  I have been using evernote for 6 months, got through the steep learning curve of the product, overcame the fact it is horrible at lists and time based tasks.  But messing with my other apps makes this product a little more than malware.  After having searched the forums and web for help it appears this is an issue for multiple people and evernotes response -too bad, not your fault, issue has been resolved?  I have attempted the deletion of the add-in out of outlook as well as simply turned the com-add-in off.  Evernote is so invasive that upon any relaunch the software will reinitialize itself and reload into the other software, similar in nature to a virus or malware.  It does not respect or acknowledge the users actions or requests.

 

You do not, for any reason, place your app or "features" of your app into other software and person's computer, that is off limits, out of bounds and makes you a bad provider of products..  Very bad protocol gentlemen.  Completely ruined my experience with your product.  

[5u7ch 0]

I have been receiving the prompt to download Evernote for Windows 5.0.2.1392 GA Release for weeks but everytime I attempt it, I get the message that I was unable to and please try again later.  Pretty annoying. 

[Perfect Faro 14]

5u7ch: Be VERY glad. You don't want to upgrade, at all, ever, until the problems have been worked out. People are very unhappy with the latest version of the client, as a quick scan of the forums can tell you, so be happy that the program is preventing you from making a mistake.

[C6REW 416]

Worst upgrade since windows vista.  If I had known the issues with this upgrade it would have never happened, unfortunately I upgraded.  It has completely ruined my outlook.  Put in support request, never received a response.  Every time I launch outlook it crashes, solely due to evernote placing a com-add-in into outlook, something I never asked it to do nor did I want it too.  I have been using evernote for 6 months, got through the steep learning curve of the product, overcame the fact it is horrible at lists and time based tasks.  But messing with my other apps makes this product a little more than malware.  After having searched the forums and web for help it appears this is an issue for multiple people and evernotes response -too bad, not your fault, issue has been resolved?  I have attempted the deletion of the add-in out of outlook as well as simply turned the com-add-in off.  Evernote is so invasive that upon any relaunch the software will reinitialize itself and reload into the other software, similar in nature to a virus or malware.  It does not respect or acknowledge the users actions or requests.

 

You do not, for any reason, place your app or "features" of your app into other software and person's computer, that is off limits, out of bounds and makes you a bad provider of products..  Very bad protocol gentlemen.  Completely ruined my experience with your product.  

 

 

Hi,

 

You mention a support request, can you let us know your ticket number so it can be checked.

 

Best regards

 

Chris

[C6REW 416]

5u7ch: Be VERY glad. You don't want to upgrade, at all, ever, until the problems have been worked out. People are very unhappy with the latest version of the client, as a quick scan of the forums can tell you, so be happy that the program is preventing you from making a mistake.

 

 

Whilst some people have indeed experienced a few problems or don't like the way Evernote works now, that in no way means everyone has the problems.

 

There are a lot of people who, like myself, think the changes are very good.

 

The problems can be sorted and the user interface is just down to a persons preferences.

 

Best regards

 

Chris

[Perfect Faro 14]

C6REW: Except that the problems HAVEN'T been sorted; not even close. Both the clipper and the desktop client for Windows have problems that haven't been corrected in the weeks since they were rolled out, and all we're getting from Evernote and its representatives (i.e. people like you) is obfuscation and denial that there is even a problem. If you really consider yourself an "evangelist" (i.e. someone who proselytizes to get people to use the product), then you should be listening to what your customers have to say instead of automatically claiming that everything is fine when that clearly isn't the case.

[C6REW 416]

I don't have any customers on here!

 

All I have done is told you, I and others don't have problems. So I am not sure why you are getting upset!

 

I didn't claim everything was fine!

 

Yes, some people have problems and as far as I am aware these are being worked on.

 

Best regards

 

 

 

Chris

[Perfect Faro 14]

Chris:

 

Sorry if it seems I was attacking you. I have had EXTREMELY negative experiences with several other "evangelists" here, who were insulting, condescending, and rude, and I just assumed that you were one of them. Clearly, that's not the case, and I apologize if I came across as aggressive.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

I have had EXTREMELY negative experiences with several other "evangelists" here, who were insulting, condescending, and rude,

 

That's a two way street.

[Perfect Faro 14]

I rest my case.

[cwb 225]

If only that were true though.

[Perfect Faro 14]

You two truly are the gift that keeps on giving!

[jefito 5,589]

Chris:

 

Sorry if it seems I was attacking you. I have had EXTREMELY negative experiences with several other "evangelists" here, who were insulting, condescending, and rude, and I just assumed that you were one of them. Clearly, that's not the case, and I apologize if I came across as aggressive.

The takeaway here is that forum posters are individuals, and generally do not post according to some predefined guidelines (with the exception of Evernote staffers, whose posts here are subject to some company ground rules, like, "don't give out feature roadmaps or due dates", etc.). In other words, just because you had a disagreement with one evangelist doesn't mean that all interactions with other evangelists (or even the same individual on a separate issues) require you to be aggressive in your response. On the other hand, if an individual writes in such a way that you think is contrary to the forum rules (http://discussion.evernote.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules), then you should report their post using the "Report" button.

[Perfect Faro 14]

Been there, done that, got no response. Take away? The company doesn't care.

[cwb 225]

That's one possibility. There are others to consider in an introspective moment.

I've also been there, done that, as well, and got a prompt and more than I requested response.

It might be a diffence in what was requested, or why, or how.

In order for a request to be received and acted on as expected first requires a level of agreement on the issues.

If that hasn't been reached, I'm not sure one can expect a change in the direction you were expecting.

If there's any one thing to be gleaned here, Evernote isn't a lever that can be pulled. There no - the customer is always right - when there's 10's of millions of them pulling in different directions.

[jefito 5,589]

Been there, done that, got no response. Take away? The company doesn't care.

The company certainly cares, and I can assure you that discussion takes place behind the scenes. If the post needs editing, or a user needs to be warned / banned, or the topic needs some additional information / direction (like a "please settle down and get back on topic" message), then those actions are performed. If you feel that you need notice as to what happened (or didn't), and why, then ask for it when you open the report. The General Guidelines section of the Forum Rules of Conduct gives some indication of why things that you previously reported might not have caused anything visible to have happened:

 

General Guidelines

The Evernote forums aim to foster constructive discussion. Be yourself, but please use this general rule of thumb: if you wouldn’t say it at the dinner table*, don’t say it here. We don’t mind snark and gibes, but don’t get hateful. Put another way: the golden rule applies here.

[mcarrara 6]

Are you kidding me?!? This new version runs like molasses! When using the keyboard to move down through the snippets list, the note pane is so slow to update that you lose track of where you are. The feeling of synchronization, which the prior version displayed, has evaporated.

 

And the tab key! Have you seen what it does? Completely hosed.

 

And...the new installation broke my shortcut keys to the app.

 

And to add insult to injury, it's just gone into the old "Not Responding" state for the second time in ten minutes.

 

You need some more experienced people on the QA/Testing side. These kind of amateur mistakes are really inexcusable!

 

How can I revert back to the prior version?

OK I waited a while.  The new version is as slow as molasses.  Click a new note and wait a few seconds.  Click to add a title wait a few seconds.  This is slow.

 

Two other issues:

1. Why does the cursor default to the note field and not the title?  Don't normal people type a title first and then a note?

2. Every other Windows program on the face of the earth and many web apps all use tab to move between fields.  Not Evernote they use a return.  Please explain why?

[mcarrara 6]

In the '60's we said don't trust anyone over thirty.  Tech companys now say don't hire anyone over thirty.  What you get is a UI designed for twenty something users by twenty something designers.  Those of us who don't like the new design can start our own company I guess.  I wish designers would remember that their designs need to be accessible, which means there must be enough contrast between things like test and background.  I guess it could be worse, they could have gone dark like Photoshop.

[jefito 5,589]

In the '60's we said don't trust anyone over thirty.  Tech companys now say don't hire anyone over thirty.  What you get is a UI designed for twenty something users by twenty something designers.  Those of us who don't like the new design can start our own company I guess.  I wish designers would remember that their designs need to be accessible, which means there must be enough contrast between things like test and background.  I guess it could be worse, they could have gone dark like Photoshop.

I am over 50 and I can use the interface just fine. I actually *like* some of the changes (some others, not so much, as I've posted about any number of times). That being said, it's true -- designs should be made accessiblilty-friendly.

[dlu 628]

In the '60's we said don't trust anyone over thirty.  Tech companys now say don't hire anyone over thirty.  What you get is a UI designed for twenty something users by twenty something designers.  Those of us who don't like the new design can start our own company I guess.  I wish designers would remember that their designs need to be accessible, which means there must be enough contrast between things like test and background.  I guess it could be worse, they could have gone dark like Photoshop.

How many twenty something Windows developers do you know? The Windows team here is er... well experienced.

[jbenson2 2,147]

How many twenty something Windows developers do you know? The Windows team here is er... well experienced.

 

In this Developers video, the rest of the Evernote staff sure look like a bunch of young whipper-snappers (excluding the CEO and the guy on the couch).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKSdOM2YR2c#t=115

 

This might explain why there is no zoom feature in Evernote. All those youngsters have 20/20 vision or better. Give the developers a few years to mature and their eagle eyesight will start to deteriorate.

 

[dlu 628]

 

How many twenty something Windows developers do you know? The Windows team here is er... well experienced.

 

In this Developers video, the rest of the Evernote staff sure look like a bunch of young whipper-snappers (excluding the CEO and the guy on the couch).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKSdOM2YR2c#t=115

 

This might explain why there is no zoom feature in Evernote. All those youngsters have 20/20 vision or better. Give the developers a few years to mature and their eagle eyesight will start to deteriorate.

 

 

 

I think that's titled Life at Evernote, so it isn't just developers in that video. Think most of our Windows devs have glasses...

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

How many twenty something Windows developers do you know? The Windows team here is er... well experienced.

 

In this Developers video, the rest of the Evernote staff sure look like a bunch of young whipper-snappers (excluding the CEO and the guy on the couch).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKSdOM2YR2c#t=115

 

This might explain why there is no zoom feature in Evernote. All those youngsters have 20/20 vision or better. Give the developers a few years to mature and their eagle eyesight will start to deteriorate.

 

I think that's titled Life at Evernote, so it isn't just developers in that video. Think most of our Windows devs have glasses...

Not the guy in the sweater talking about doing the right thing

Of course, there are probably a few people with contacts, so I think counting the number of glasses in the room probably isn't an accurate measure of visual acuity!

Zoom isn't my thing, but I do agree in one respect -- Evernote ought to make more of an effort to accommodate users with accessibility concerns (as I have often said in the past). Gray on gray, tiny un-alterable fonts, the lack of control over contrast (or color), etc., etc. add up to an experience that unnecessarily excludes users. I think the accessibility requests are valid, not terribly onerous, and often would be welcomed by the majority of users.

My recommendation would be for future updates to gradually start incorporating considerations like this.

[jefito 5,589]

Interesting video.

Development in a startup is often a young person's game -- long hours and commitment; that doesn't always work as well for folks who have marriages, kids, etc, or want to experience more of the outside world in their free time. But that's not universal, as the video shows. Having a balance of youth and experience is important, too, if both ends of the spectrum make themselves available to learn from the other end. I do know some 20-something Windows developers, because that's what the job is / was. They could just as well be Android or iOS devs or web developers, because they're smart and adaptable. And fearless.

Now was there someone I was supposed to recognize in the video? (looking around the room expectantly)...