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Windows 4.6.0 Beta 1

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#1 dlu

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:43 AM

Hello People of Windows!

We have a new 4.6.0 version of Windows that offers exciting new changes! We've removed the Account and Shared tabs on the top of the left panel. All of your notebooks that use to be under the "Shared" tab are now underneath your notebooks. We're now calling these notebooks "Joined Notebooks." Shared was a little vague since you could always share your own notebooks.

In doing so, we've also allowed you to create stacks with these Joined Notebooks. You can take any number of Joined Notebooks and put them into a stack. The stack gets reordered according to the stack name.

If you have Joined Notebooks, you'll can see all of your notes and notes from joined notebooks by selecting Notebooks. We've found that this helps greatly if you are using Shared Notebooks on a regular basis and they don't feel so isolated. If you have Joined Notebooks, "All Notes" gets renamed to "All My Notes" but the functionality is still the same. This will help preserve users with specific workflows that don't involve Joined Notebooks.

We've also done some design tweaking with the left panel, removing some lines and modifying the indenting to conserve horizontal space.

There's a lot of little things in there that we're still fixing, but we'd love to get your thoughts.

Thanks!

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#2 jefito

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:54 AM

OK, going for it. D-d-d-d-d-d-ownloading...
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#3 dlu

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:56 AM

OK, going for it. D-d-d-d-d-d-ownloading...

*bracing for impact*
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#4 jefito

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:16 AM

Made it. Install seemed a little slower than normal getting going, lots of disk activity, not sure what was going on, but it might have been just something else going on in the system. So it's all one big happy family of notebooks now. I immediately made a stack to keep the old shared notebooks in, called, hey, "Joined Notebooks", very original. And did some other tidying up as well. Kinda miss the dividers in the left panel, just a little; they helped my eye navigate between the sections, but it's no big deal.

Looking at the Activity tool in the toolbar, maybe with fresher eyes, makes me think that that might be more useful as a filterable, sortable list.

That's all for now, I'm going to bed.
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#5 GrumpyMonkey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:23 AM

We have a new 4.6.0 version of Windows that offers exciting new changes! We've removed the Account and Shared tabs on the top of the left panel. All of your notebooks that use to be under the "Shared" tab are now underneath your notebooks. We're now calling these notebooks "Joined Notebooks." Shared was a little vague since you could always share your own notebooks.

This is big stuff. Good job with the update. So far so good. The interface is looking great, and I am glad to see how well everything fits in there.

One problem, though. The "properties" for the "joined notebooks" tell me that these are "linked notebooks." I think the terminology is confusing. I don't mind either way, but it would be good to unify everything.

Also, it looks like All Notes includes the joined notebooks. That's OK, because I can filter things on my own, but don't you think it is confusing that All Notes searches for everything including the joined notebooks, but All My Notes only searches your own stuff, even though the joined notebook stuff looks like it is underneath All My Notes?

We've also done some design tweaking with the left panel, removing some lines and modifying the indenting to conserve horizontal space.

I liked the lines myself. Now there is just empty space. But, it's no big deal. Either way is fine by me. [EDIT:] It looks like Jefito and I had the exact same reaction. I'd say these lines are obviously helping people, so all things being equal, I'd recommend adding them back into it.

By the way, I like how you now have a message in the favorites bar telling users that they can drag stuff into it (that wasn't there before, right?).

One bug that I cannot reproduce. At some point, after I did a few searches in my notes (I don't know if this has any connection at all), my Notebooks dropdown list changed its name from Notebooks to "4294967294". I have no idea why, and when I pressed on the arrow for the dropdown, it reverted to Notebooks. [EDIT:] Just to clarify, I have no notebook with this name.


#6 dlu

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:31 AM

Ahh yes, we should change the properties to say Joined Notebooks instead of Linked Notebooks.

For All My Notes, we wanted to give users a way to get back to the scope they were used to. I imagine for GTD and some other use cases this would be important. I wasn't quite sure how else to fit that in there. By "All Notes" do you mean the one in the Favorites Bar? That is supposed to say "All My Notes" and have the same scope as All My Notes

The Favorites Bar has always been there! Well at least for the first GA of it. Perhaps you downloaded a beta and never saw it. It only shows up if you reset the favorites bar.

Pete on our team has seen the bug where you notebook name turns into a bunch of numbers. I think what's happening is that we're showing the GUID instead of the notebook name. If you can repo, that would be great. We'll look into it as well, it seems to be a bit tricky to repro.
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#7 GrumpyMonkey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:38 AM

Ahh yes, we should change the properties to say Joined Notebooks instead of Linked Notebooks.

Cool.

For All My Notes, we wanted to give users a way to get back to the scope they were used to. I imagine for GTD and some other use cases this would be important.

Definitely! I wouldn't want All My Notes to go away. I just thought that visually it might be confusing to see the joined notebooks apparently lined up below it, but not really part of it. I don't really have an easy solution to this, except to make the suggestion that you don't indent the owner's name, move it in line with the Notebooks (no indent) and when you click on the owner's name, have the notebook name indented one line. It will then match up with the All My Notes column, but I think because the owner's name isn't indented, it provides a visual cue that it is different. Does this make sense?

By "All Notes" do you mean the one in the Favorites Bar? That is supposed to say "All My Notes" and have the same scope as All My Notes

Yes. As I understand it, the All Notes should NOT say All My Notes, because it literally means All Notes (everything in the account), while All My Notes only means my personal ones. This [the names displayed] is how it was in the previous version, and I am fine with the current functionality, but I just thought the visual cues might be confusing.

The Favorites Bar has always been there!

I know that, of course :) I was only talking about the message, which I don't remember from the previous version.

Pete on our team has seen the bug where you notebook name turns into a bunch of numbers. I think what's happening is that we're showing the GUID instead of the notebook name. If you can repo, that would be great. We'll look into it as well, it seems to be a bit tricky to repro.

I'll try. I went through the same steps searching, but had no luck. I am glad that Pete caught it, though, and I am not just an oddball! I kind of figured it had something to do with the GUID as well.

THANKS FOR THE GREAT UPDATE AND QUICK RESPONSES!

#8 GrumpyMonkey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:44 AM

No. I have a better idea. Does this make sense?

>Notebooks
All My Notes
Notebook One
Notebook Two
>Joined Notebooks
Joined Name
Joined Name
Joined Notebook

This idea, however, would require a bit more work to implement, I think. Now, when you click on Notebooks, it closes everything. Under this system, Clicking on Notebooks would only close your stuff. You'd have to click on Joined Notebooks to close those.

If this arrangement appeals to you, then I would add that we maybe change Notebooks to "My Notebooks." Personally, I think this would be the way to go, because it clearly distinguishes everything for users, while also indicating that they are "together" under All Notes, and searchable that way. What do you think?

I should stress that I have no problems with the new interface. I like it. These are just suggestions to make it a little clearer, and more user friendly for folks who are not as familiar with joined notebooks or the new features.

#9 jbenson2

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:45 AM

Pete on our team has seen the bug where you notebook name turns into a bunch of numbers. I think what's happening is that we're showing the GUID instead of the notebook name. If you can repo, that would be great. We'll look into it as well, it seems to be a bit tricky to repro.


I used to participate in the betas, but have backed off.
I now wait a couple weeks after the General Release.

Thank you to the folks who are jumping straight in to the betas to identify the corrections.
Your assistance is much appreciated by other users.

#10 ever111

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:55 AM

Instead of the divider lines, what about just filling the spaces after the first item with ==========?
And/or really bold them...

> Notebooks===========
All My Notes
> Some /notebook
>Tags================
> Priority
> Sometags
> Attributes============
> Created
> Last Modified
> Saved Searches=======
> Trash (445) ==========

#11 GrumpyMonkey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:05 AM

Instead of the divider lines, what about just filling the spaces after the first item with ==========?
And/or really bold them...

> Notebooks===========
All My Notes
> Some /notebook
>Tags================
> Priority
> Sometags
> Attributes============
> Created
> Last Modified
> Saved Searches=======
> Trash (445) ==========


Hmmmm.... I think I like the old divider lines better. If the team is going to tighten up the sidebar and get rid of the spaces entirely, then that is another matter, but if I could choose among the four options (spaces gone, spaces there, ever111's idea, or the old separators), then I'd go with the old lines.

#12 GrumpyMonkey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:06 AM


Pete on our team has seen the bug where you notebook name turns into a bunch of numbers. I think what's happening is that we're showing the GUID instead of the notebook name. If you can repo, that would be great. We'll look into it as well, it seems to be a bit tricky to repro.


I used to participate in the betas, but have backed off.
I now wait a couple weeks after the General Release.

Thank you to the folks who are jumping straight in to the betas to identify the corrections.
Your assistance is much appreciated by other users.


You're welcome. Of course, I forgot to mention about the new due dates. But, you wouldn't want to download the beta to try them out, so maybe it's best to wait after all.

-----

Just kidding :)

#13 dlu

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:08 AM

>Notebooks
All My Notes
Notebook One
Notebook Two
>Joined Notebooks
Joined Name
Joined Name
Joined Notebook



We had something like this earlier, but we wanted to make joined notebooks and your notebooks under the same section. We moved in that direction with the mac client because there are a number of user cases where you want your noteboks and joined notebooks side by side. It might make more sense if we turn off group by owner and have them completely intermingling.
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#14 ever111

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:19 AM

Grumpy has it, but instead of Notebooks, put it all under All Notebooks, and change All My Notes to All My Notebooks.
Search searches notebooks for notes - all or mine.

But won't the new way, without the tab for shared, force the Shared Notebooks to the bottom of the Notebook list, and for a big list, way off the page? Way out of sight?

Maybe you all should have just renamed the tab to "Joined", which looks musch more interesting than Shared, anyway? That might have been enough? Hmmm.

#15 ever111

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:33 AM

If the lines go, then what about doing very bold first item that was after the divider.

And maybe there should be an option on each notebook to include it in searches or not, and a Search My Notebooks option, and a Search Every Notebook option.
Regardless of where/how Joined Notebooks end up, issue a warning with an click required, when Joined Notebooks are included in a "global" search (My Notebooks with Joined Notebooks included), so we'll realize it, and get off that setting, and not waste search time and resources.

#16 GrumpyMonkey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:51 AM


>Notebooks
All My Notes
Notebook One
Notebook Two
>Joined Notebooks
Joined Name
Joined Name
Joined Notebook



We had something like this earlier, but we wanted to make joined notebooks and your notebooks under the same section. We moved in that direction with the mac client because there are a number of user cases where you want your noteboks and joined notebooks side by side. It might make more sense if we turn off group by owner and have them completely intermingling.


This is tough. It does help to know the owner, especially when you have thirty or forty shared notebooks. The Mac interface has the owner shown in smaller type below the name of the notebook, which is alphabetized. I am not sure this would be desirable on Windows.

The problem isn't so much that I want to keep them visually separate for appearance's sake, but more because functionally they are still separate (a good thing) in the Windows app. All Notes searches them, BUT All My Notes does not. This is absolutely necessary (functionally) because you cannot designate more than one notebook in a search with the advanced search operands, so it is very difficult to filter out your notes / joined notes.

I have reported two problems with the current system in the Mac forums / iOS forums, and I am glad to see they are not replicated in Windows.

(1) On the Mac, there is no way to do what we can apparently do in Windows: filter search results to include everything, or just the notes in our own notebooks (All Notes vs. All My Notes). The Mac interface has a choice in the Sort of All Notes or My Notes, but not in the search. The problem here is that searches turn up all kinds of noise, and even worse, the iOS app behaves differently, so your search results are totally different. This was driving me nuts for a while (see solution below).

(2) On the Mac, because everything is all mixed together, it is easy for clumsy people like myself to post very private notes into shared notebooks. I have already done this, to my chagrin, and in order to avoid the problem, I deleted all of my joined notebooks but one. This also had the additional benefit of solving problem #1.

I should mention that no one else (?) has reported these two problems. Personally, I think that is because no one else uses shared notebooks, or has tested their use cases thoroughly if they do. However, it could also be that I am just a lunatic fringe case.

In my opinion, right now Windows has got it right. This is the way to go. All Notes or All My Notes. I was only suggesting that this distinction be reflected somehow in the way the icons are arranged. Please, please do not get rid of this ability to do different searches. The current implementation is very nice.

#17 kvitekp

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:18 AM

One bug that I cannot reproduce. At some point, after I did a few searches in my notes (I don't know if this has any connection at all), my Notebooks dropdown list changed its name from Notebooks to "4294967294". I have no idea why, and when I pressed on the arrow for the dropdown, it reverted to Notebooks. [EDIT:] Just to clarify, I have no notebook with this name.

There is a fix that did not make it into this beta: clicking on notebook group item in the left panel (Notebooks, All Notes, etc) will show large number like the one you mentioned in the favorites bar Notebook item name if you tweaked your fav bar behavior to show selected notebook name by changing ShowFavBarItemName registry variable. Let me know if that's what you are seeing.

#18 GrumpyMonkey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:51 AM


One bug that I cannot reproduce. At some point, after I did a few searches in my notes (I don't know if this has any connection at all), my Notebooks dropdown list changed its name from Notebooks to "4294967294". I have no idea why, and when I pressed on the arrow for the dropdown, it reverted to Notebooks. [EDIT:] Just to clarify, I have no notebook with this name.

There is a fix that did not make it into this beta: clicking on notebook group item in the left panel (Notebooks, All Notes, etc) will show large number like the one you mentioned in the favorites bar Notebook item name if you tweaked your fav bar behavior to show selected notebook name by changing ShowFavBarItemName registry variable. Let me know if that's what you are seeing.


Hi. Long time no see!
If I understand you correctly, I should only be seeing the numbers if I have changed my registry variable, right? I haven't done that. I also haven't been able to reproduce the problem. Or, did you want me to change the registry variable to see if the number displays?

#19 jefito

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

You're welcome. Of course, I forgot to mention about the new due dates. But, you wouldn't want to download the beta to try them out, so maybe it's best to wait after all.

Now that's just plain mean. :)
~Jeff
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#20 williams_s

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

Has anyone had any issues with tags disappearing? When I installed it all my tags had gone (but they were available via the tags pull down in the bar) the next time I looked they where back, then once I adjusted the column widths the tags disappeared again.





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