86 replies to this topic

[dlu]

pgdahl, on 18 February 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Also, to be completely obnoxious about it: The Windows client has keyboard shortcuts for creating audio and webcam notes

That sentence causes some serious love/hate.

I also noticed that the other day, and was hoping it wouldn't get pointed out before I figured out what to do about it. Oh well, anyways I'm still at the drawing board

[pgdahl]

dlu, on 19 February 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

pgdahl, on 18 February 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Also, to be completely obnoxious about it: The Windows client has keyboard shortcuts for creating audio and webcam notes

That sentence causes some serious love/hate.

I also noticed that the other day, and was hoping it wouldn't get pointed out before I figured out what to do about it. Oh well, anyways I'm still at the drawing board

Ah, please take that remark with a grain of salt. I am not a proponent of the logic that says that because something is in the Windows version it should by all means also be in the Mac ditto. It was just an interesting discovery I made. The irony is, I made the discovery after discovering that I have no reason but to be very happy the Mac version is so much different than the Windows version.

See, I have never used Evernote on Windows, since I didn't start using Evernote until after I switched to Mac. But having another reason to boot up Windows, I thought it would be interesting to see what the Windows version looks like and downloaded the latest beta. And I have to say, I was absolutely gobsmacked to see how much clutter there is in the Windows interface. It is an overwhelmingly ugly mess of buttons, drop downs and links. And it quite simply looks like something I'd never use (and I wonder if this may in fact be the reason I never *did* use it in the first place...). Only happy to get back to the slick, clean Mac interface.

In other words: I appreciate the quest to minimise clutter and keeping the interface slick while leaving the features we need the most readily available. But I feel the need to chime in when something useful are removed from the interface without - as it appears from this end - no really compelling reason (at least, one has not been disclosed). It makes me worry, Mac Evernote will wind up in the opposite ditch than the Windows version and become pretty, but useless. That is why I have been giving this arguably minor issue this much attention and feedback.

With that said: Keep up the good work!

[JMichael]

pgdahl, on 19 February 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

In other words: I appreciate the quest to minimise clutter and keeping the interface slick while leaving the features we need the most readily available.

Ah, therein lies the rub. When you say "the features we need the most" I suspect you mean I need the most". If each of us could have only the features we want, then each person would think the UI is not "cluttered". The challenge is to provide a tool that is functionally useful for a broad range of users (60M and counting) while not having a UI that is "cluttered".

pgdahl, on 19 February 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

But I feel the need to chime in when something useful are removed from the interface without - as it appears from this end - no really compelling reason (at least, one has not been disclosed). It makes me worry, Mac Evernote will . . . become pretty, but useless. That is why I have been giving this arguably minor issue this much attention and feedback.

I apologize for the edit, but I wanted to make clear the point that you are making, which a number of us have also made: the danger of becoming "pretty but useless"
Another way of saying this a design principle that is well known and accepted by many, if not most: form follows function.

I submit we are a long way from "pretty but useless". However, I share your concerns that some of the recent changes tend to emphasize good looks over usefulness. And, there have been several features that have been removed that quite a few users would like to have restored.

It is in fact a difficult design challenge to provide a lot of functionality without appearing cluttered. But I believe the Mac team can meet this challenge.

[pgdahl]

JMichael, on 19 February 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

pgdahl, on 19 February 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

In other words: I appreciate the quest to minimise clutter and keeping the interface slick while leaving the features we need the most readily available.

Ah, therein lies the rub. When you say "the features we need the most" I suspect you mean I need the most". If each of us could have only the features we want, then each person would think the UI is not "cluttered". The challenge is to provide a tool that is functionally useful for a broad range of users (60M and counting) while not having a UI that is "cluttered".

I did write we. Don't suspect or assume anything, I write what I mean. I am annoyed that you insinuate that it would not occur to me that there are other Evernote Mac users to me with vastly different needs and preferences making it a very different task for the developers to please everyone. That said, I disagree with the notion that just because all my favourite features were where I wanted them, it would automatically be an uncluttered interface. I do not believe that is necessarily true.

JMichael, on 19 February 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

pgdahl, on 19 February 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

But I feel the need to chime in when something useful are removed from the interface without - as it appears from this end - no really compelling reason (at least, one has not been disclosed). It makes me worry, Mac Evernote will . . . become pretty, but useless. That is why I have been giving this arguably minor issue this much attention and feedback.

I apologize for the edit, but I wanted to make clear the point that you are making, which a number of us have also made: the danger of becoming "pretty but useless"
Another way of saying this a design principle that is well known and accepted by many, if not most: form follows function.

Make your own points and let me worry about making my points clear. My apologies for not giving satisfaction this time around.

JMichael, on 19 February 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

I submit we are a long way from "pretty but useless". However, I share your concerns that some of the recent changes tend to emphasize good looks over usefulness. And, there have been several features that have been removed that quite a few users would like to have restored.

It is in fact a difficult design challenge to provide a lot of functionality without appearing cluttered. But I believe the Mac team can meet this challenge.

I completely agree, and I have confidence in the Mac team as well. Was this another point you thought I didn't make clear enough?

[JMichael]

@pgdahl:
I was trying to agree with and support the main points of your post, but I obviously was not clear enough.

One point though: I don't know how you would know the features "we" need the most.
You certainly don't know the features I need the most. So, I don't know who the "we" is that you refer to.

Frankly, I rarely need the audio or snapshot features, so I am only concerned about the design approach in general.
However, I do see how the loss of these buttons would adversely impact those that do need them.

[dlu]

I appreciate the votes of confidence.

[GrumpyMonkey]

evernote on the mac has a lot of things going for it, in my opinion, and the developers have provided us with a great experience.

in the next release, i hope there will be some consideration given to customizing the interface for our unique situations. of course, a default view is expected and desired, but even just the ability to hide/show information (without a popup) would be a major step forward.

if we could scale the window from a tiny box in the corner to full screen, from showing nothing but the title and a few other fields to all of the metadata in the header, it would be a really impressive design (in my opinion) no matter what your workflow is like.

missing features, popups, a single unuform view, and removal of persistent settings (we have to click around now to see the metadata in each and every note) gets some of the look right but loses the functionality.