116 replies to this topic

[BurgersNFries]

(Exiting stage left...since I partially got sucked into yet another tag vs notebooks/folders discussion...)

[GrumpyMonkey]

(Exiting stage left...since I partially got sucked into yet another tag vs notebooks/folders discussion...)

every discussion is really one about tags and notebooks, right?

[BurgersNFries]

every discussion is really one about tags and notebooks, right?

Either that or highlighting...

...or security...

...or due dates...

[graic]

I have found the problem with organizing via Tags is the number of tags required starts to grow out of control
The Tag list length becomes unwieldy

Why force users into tags and only one layer of note book nesting ?

Why not allow what users want , Tags and Multiple Note Book Nesting ?

Thanks

[jbenson2]

I have found the problem with organizing via Tags is the number of tags required starts to grow out of control
The Tag list length becomes unwieldy

In my opinion, the same can be said for multiple levels of folders.

In either case, folders or tags, it requires developing some structure by the user.

[May]

I have found the problem with organizing via Tags is the number of tags required starts to grow out of control
The Tag list length becomes unwieldy


Thanks

Over-tagging doesn’t really exist. The problem is not too much information or too many Tags for that matter.

Over-relying on a flat or hierarchical list of tags is the real problem. Or in other words - failure to filter tags…

The problem is filter failure.

You can't really solve it by imposing more sophisticated rigid organizational schemes. It might make sense in the beginning, but it’s not a viable solution to the issue of information management over the period of your whole life. It’s just a temporarily solution.

"The basic fact that order often hides more than it reveals has sometimes itself been hidden within the art and science of organizing our world." - David Weinberger.

"The solution to the overabundance of information is more information."


Rely on a good filtering system, i.e. have the system which allows to filter efficiently on the way out. 

[jbenson2]

Rely on a good filtering system, i.e. have the system which allows to filter efficiently on the way out.

I found the negative search in Evernote to be helpful in filtering notes and looking for nuggets of information.
For example, I was looking for an email from my Discover credit card regarding a large purchase notification last year.

I searched for:

tag:Discover -tag:payment

And found all Discover non-payment notes.


If I wanted to narrow the search down to just last year, I would add a date range including an additional negative search.

created:20110101 -created:20120101 tag:Discover -tag:payment

p.s. By the way, for the people who have seen my previous posts, my actual tag names are:

tag:com-cc-Discover -tag:per-payment

[graic]

jbenson2,

Thanks for the tips on searching with negative tags -tag: tag_name.
Your other posts on searching using multiple tags are also useful (using any: tag_name1 tag_name2)

Also thanks also for such quick replies to you and May.


Some note and book structure is useful.

Consider an example,

I'm in a Work meeting with a a dozen colleagues.
Each has to report a list of the previous work's activities.
I have maybe 5 items to discuss quickly.
It is far easier to have an ordered list of sets of work to report than to have to do 5 different searches.

Yes I realize that I can create a set of "tick box" activities to report within one note.
But its awkward to hold all the graphs needed in the one note.
Especially when you can't resize the images (graphs for example) within an Ever-note note and the note viewing area is reduced by the other competing windows.

BTW, CTL-Enter to open a note into a separate window doesn't work from within the note itself, It only works from the search result window.
Its an odd limitation to impose on the user.

[jefito]

Some note and book structure is useful.

All of the considerations that you offer have been discussed at one time or another in the forums, and are known to Evernote. Nested notebooks are not in the offing any time soon.

Relevant to your example: if you know ahead of time what topics will come up in your meeting, then tag them specially for the meeting with a single tag (there's nothing saying that this tag cannot be temporary). Then you can just search on that tag (or better still, use a Saved Search), and you get quick access to the relevant notes.

[jbenson2]

I'm in a Work meeting with a a dozen colleagues.
Each has to report a list of the previous work's activities.
I have maybe 5 items to discuss quickly.
It is far easier to have an ordered list of sets of work to report than to have to do 5 different searches.

An alternate suggestion:
Copy the 5 items and supporting data into workflowy.com, (which supports nested bullet points), and print a hard copy.

[datai]

A hierarchy is easily represented in EN through tags. The issue is representing a poly-hierarchy i.e. one child tag with more than one parent tag.
When using folder hierarchy, in Windows for example, the issue of poly-hierarchy representation is solved through shortcuts. You don't have to duplicate one particular file to have it in 2 different folders, you just have it in one folder and create a reference to it, i.e shortcut, within another folder(s).

I am a teacher and I have this constant debate with myself about the best way to store my lesson plans. Every year, I teach the same content and my courses keep the same prefixes. However, my lesson plans do change, and the academic year changes, as well.
To (well) organize my lesson plans, a poly-hierarchy is needed.

If EN opts for "association", or what May called "networked", structure, then, imho, I think that the offered ability to nest tags is confusing.

Since we organize ideas (and other stuff) through both associations and hierarchies, I think EN should offer this flexibility in both tags and Notebooks.

One may say: "well, finding notes through search when they are tagged is easier". I say: "since EN search is powerful, you could still find your notes within Notebooks."... "you can still tag you notes that are inside a Notebook hierarchy.

The issue of tagging a note with all parent and child tags can be solved with this simple app called Taggy. I know it's available for OSX but not sure for other platforms.

Otherwise, I am grateful for such a neat program.

[deanouellette]

May, when you going to be sharing this new system you said you needed to document?

[Josip]

@BurgerNFries

How do you tag your example
Cars --> Car A --> insurance policies --> Car A insurance policy
repairs --> repair documents here
license/tags --> license/tag info here
Car B --> insurance policies --> Car B insurance policy
repairs --> repair documents here
license/tags --> license/tag info here

Wouldnt that look similar to this:
Jeep --> insurance policies --> Jeep insurance...
another car
BMW --> insurance policies --> BMW ins...
so insurance policies would have to replicate folder 2 or even more times, and we can have only one tag named "insurance policies". Please help

Thanks

[BurgersNFries]

@BurgerNFries

How do you tag your example
Cars --> Car A --> insurance policies --> Car A insurance policy
repairs --> repair documents here
license/tags --> license/tag info here
Car B --> insurance policies --> Car B insurance policy
repairs --> repair documents here
license/tags --> license/tag info here

Wouldnt that look similar to this:
Jeep --> insurance policies --> Jeep insurance...
another car
BMW --> insurance policies --> BMW ins...
so insurance policies would have to replicate folder 2 or even more times, and we can have only one tag named "insurance policies". Please help

Thanks

Using the example, I would apply the tag "insurance policies" to all insurance policies. Then I'd apply the BMW tag to the BMW policy, the Jeep tag to the Jeep policy & the home tag to the homeowner's policy. To find all the Jeep insurance policies over the years, I'd search on the tags "insurance policies" and Jeep.

[thethomasdahl]

Please Evernote can we have just one more folder level... Just one. Tags are all very well but they are confusing and require maintenace. I just spent ages trying to explain them to my wife who then just said "what's wrong with normal folders".

All I want is one more level.. Just one. Please make this my Christmas present.

(Ooops sorry, I forgot that Evernote call folders "notebooks" for some reason I have never figured out. I have folders in my office full of documents and notes)

Thomas

[preternat]

I came here looking for hierarchical folders (ie "nested notebooks" or whatever's your favorite term). A lot of the data in my head is organized that way, or at least it's easier for me to think that way. The tags help me to make associations between data, and I can see how some people are satisfied that that's all they need. I'll ask people not to reply with "well, I don't need that, and don't expect it in evernote", even if it's true. I'm still expressing what I'm hoping for.

Sure, hierarchical, directory structures (eg on hard drives) are limited to looking physically like a tree, and tags add necessary meta-connections (or shortcuts). But visually, in my head, all that tagged data just looks like one big bowl of soup, unless I can somehow at least see its most significant structure, which is what nested folders help me with. Partly because there's a lot of context that's inherent in the structure (or at least in "my" structure). Parents matter, but not to tags, unless you complicate the tags with prepended codes, or something. (Sorry, I shouldn't say "unless you complicate the tags", because I'm really describing how I think, not you. We don't want to limit each other's preferred ways to visualize data, right?)

So just saying my piece here, because I've read the whole thread, and I really hope that at least some people don't consider this as "beating a dead horse". Hierarchical organization, despite its limitations and even if tagging is the best/primary method to categorize data, helps me
.

[preternat]

@BurgerNFries, I forgot to thank you for starting this thread. I learned a lot from you, and others.