(Archived) Feature Request: notes for tags

[gazumped 11,652]

My problem with tags…

From comments around the forum some people found it hard to go from an hierarchical folder structure to the flat “tagged” version.

I’m doing my best to embrace the change, and have found that once you get past the old reliance on filing drawers and paper folders, where all related ‘notes’ get filed inside one folder, it’s very much more efficient to save one note and tag it with the folder(s) to which you think it relates.

All connected notes on one issue can be found easily(ish*) by using the relevant tag, and sometimes a search on the content of a note will turn up other notes with different tags that are still material to your case.

So: general feeling so far – tags = good; one item per note = good; big PDFs of multiple items = less good, just from the aggravation of having to search or page through them again to find the relevant data. Split 'em up and save the bits as separate notes.

Think of individual note titles as paragraph headers in the overall document. Creation date order will in many cases be the correct timeline; adding sub-tags or using YYYYMMDD(+HHMM if necessary) in titles will adjust as necessary.

But (and here’s the aforementioned problem) there are situations when I want to add contact or background information or account details that I will need for my next email, letter or phone call. The sort of stuff that rides “above” the day-to-day details of activities, doesn’t have any timeline position as such, and needs to come up first -or at least very quickly- on searches so I can provide my account number (example) on demand.

I’ve tried a generic Master tag – this being for the note where all that data goes; that’s currently a pain because only a few of my related note threads have the necessary extra item. I tried a separate notebook so I could see the completed master notes – and found getting the extra details from each thread took too much time, so the few notes stayed just a few. I tried adding this information to a random page from the thread I was working on – and would forget to tag it, so couldn’t remember which ones I processed. I tried inter-note links; still too cumbersome.

What is needed, I think, is a metadata area where any note from a given thread can be used to enter constants for that thread – address, email, account number, phone etc. Which I think means that (because one note can be a member of more than one thread) that the tag for that thread should be the link, not the thread note itself.

So my point (finally) is that we need a development of the tag feature that allows a “supernote” to be attached to a tag, in the same way that a tag is attached to a note. From any note tagged “ISP” I should be able to get directly and immediately to one note that will give me the address / phone / account number / <encrypted> password**.

These notes could simply be the existing setup, stored in a new default notebook, just with that special reverse link from the tag to that individual note, rather than all notes with the tag.

Hope that made sense – constructive questions or comments welcomed… or if someone already has some system that works in this context, please put me out of my misery!

* patience and consistency in tagging – not my strong points..

** yes I know I could do that with two tags, one of them “Master” but see * above!

[Wern 246]

As you already thought yourself: You could set up a separate notebook with all your "Metadata", for phone numbers, email, whatever you think is "meta".

Then link this to your "normal" note(s).

Wern

[mcheng 106]

Hi gazumped,

Thanks for the detailed description. However I still don't quite understand what you want to do. Can you give a more concrete example of what you'd like to achieve?

Thanks

// Martin

[jbenson2 2,147]

Martin has a good suggestion - supply some more detail with an actual example.

I have one note that is quite important for my day to day running of Evernote.

Even if I am in another program, I can find the note quickly

• Press F5
  
• Then 7777
  
• Then Escape
  

To get F5 to work... in Evernote Windows >Tools >Options >Hot keys

Find in Evernote (changed to F5)

7777 is a random code number I added to the note. It's easy to remember and easy to find. I added a photo to make the note even easier to spot.

This note could contain the temporary phone and address information you are looking for. You could cut and paste it to the note or document you eventually want to create.

[jefito 5,589]

What is needed, I think, is a metadata area where any note from a given thread can be used to enter constants for that thread – address, email, account number, phone etc. Which I think means that (because one note can be a member of more than one thread) that the tag for that thread should be the link, not the thread note itself.

So my point (finally) is that we need a development of the tag feature that allows a “supernote” to be attached to a tag, in the same way that a tag is attached to a note. From any note tagged “ISP” I should be able to get directly and immediately to one note that will give me the address / phone / account number / <encrypted> password**.

You kind of lost me here (and a little before), but I would suggest that you look into note templates. These are notes that are set up with some fixed content and set of tags which can be copied to make new instances. For example, I keep a weekly log of projects that I work on, for time reporting. Each of these has a date field at the top (it's also the title), and an entry for each day of the week, and are tagged identically, and are all formatted similarly. To implement this system, I keep a note template with the aforementioned attributes, and every Monday morning, I copy the note to my work notebook (the copy operation preserves all of the content and attributes), change the date at the top, and I am ready for a new week.

[gazumped 11,652]

Let me have another go at explaining this. Sorry for 1) the length of this note and 2) taking a little while to come back with it – busy week.

Let’s suppose I have a need for a particular breed of widget. I’m going to use Evernote to keep details of my various prospective widget sources, and every clipped webpage note will be tagged <widget>.

When I make my decision that Acme* Widget are the best guys for the job, I’ll send my order – which gets a separate note, tagged both <widget> and <acme>.

I get an acknowledgement – another <widget> <acme> note, and then an email with delivery details. Another note.

(I know I could merge some of these notes together, but I dislike long notes with multiple PDF files – it’s less efficient to find the page you need if/ when you need it.)

Now the delivery note (+1 note) and my complaint call because these darn things are the virulent green ones, not the taupe version I ordered. (+1 note)

There’s a couple more emails (+1 note) and then the Acme van arrives to swop stuff over. Another delivery (-note).

Once unpacked, there’s an impressive Widget User Guide (55 pages) – note; some extra bits and pieces – photo / note; and the serial numbers in case of issues – photo / note.

I have a tech query about the handedness of widgets – email / note; and get smug about my widget skills in their forum – note.

By this stage my Acme virtual file is a dozen or more notes long, strung together only by its tags. Acme’s contact details are in the initial note containing the web page clip, and again in the delivery note(s) – which actually are more useful, because they’ve also got the dates and delivery references.

So when one of my customers asks about my widget supplier, or wants an upgrade on which I need some technical help, I have to search my Acme tags and then page down the list of notes until I find a likely title.

I already realise that I could tag the relevant note(s) with <contact details> or some such, so I know these notes contain the necessary information, but that assumes there is one note with all of the detail. I might assemble my contact information over several notes. Do I tag all, merge them, or extract the info into another note?

Plus I’m kind of obsessive about timelines – I’d really like to have a note that lists all the exchanges between us, so when I talk to Acme I can see that I spoke to Fred last Tuesday, but he hasn’t called me back as promised; and its now 17 days since my original order…

So my thought was. How about I do my search for Acme and open a note. There’s nothing in this note that helps me with timelines and contact details, but - whether I found this through a word or a tag search - it does have the tags common to all the Acme notes.

I’ll choose the <acme> tag (obvious reasons) and right-click. [There’s no function currently connected with tag right-click.] A new “super/ master/ meta” note opens that’s currently blank, but I can add any contact information like a name and number, or the date of a call. Or as in this case I can open another note and find more contact details. Right click <acme> again and add that.

Now whichever Acme-tagged note I find I will always have the contact details, and my timeline of events handy via one right-click.

I know I can do all of this (already do) through tags and titles, but that does rely on one really inconsistent and rather erratic contributor – me. Having an instant tag link in this way, and a “metadata” note makes this stuff easier and more reliable.

Hope that all makes sense.. I rest my case.

*If there are any companies out there called Acme, whether or not there’s a widget range in your products, I absolutely am *not* referring to you. This is a Hypothetical Example, see?

[jbenson2 2,147]

Asking Evernote to avoid relying on the "really inconsistent and rather erratic contributor (the user)" is probably asking too much for the program.

So... you need a Supernote (with contact info, etc) that always lands at the top of your search results for Acme.

Why not create the Supernote and change the Created Date to 25 years in the future. Use the Created Date as the default sort.

Whenever you search for Acme, the Supernote will always be first on your list. The following notes will contain the timeline of all the exchanges between you, Acme and Fred.

When you take another Acme call, pop open the Supernote in a 2nd window for continual access. A 2nd monitor makes this really shine. You can create other Supernotes for other products that will also stay at the top of the specific search.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

Let me have another go at explaining this. Sorry for 1) the length of this note and 2) taking a little while to come back with it – busy week.

I went through a similar situation with getting a new, faulty double oven repaired & eventually replaced. There was the initial purchase, the failures of the oven, the many calls to the service department (along with dates/times/names of the person I talked to), the notes about the times when they said they would return my call & didn't or have the part & didn't, the escalation (by me) of calling the company I purchased it from, more unreturned calls, etc. What I did is keep a "master note" of the situation, with all these details & tagged it "journal". (My Journal tag is for things I'd like to show up, similar to a diary/journal of events, thoughts, etc.) Since the purchase & all service calls generated documents that I scanned, I would put the documents in Evernote, each in their own note. But I would include the link to those notes in my master note. One of the failures of the oven is that the broiler coil thingie in the top unit caught fire. So I also have photos of the burned out unit & the pans that were ruined. Those are also in separate notes but in the master/journal note, I include links to the notes with the photos.

*If there are any companies out there called Acme, whether or not there’s a widget range in your products, I absolutely am *not* referring to you. This is a Hypothetical Example, see?

[jbenson2 2,147]

Here is an example of a slightly different Supernote - I move the Created Date forward by a few months then follow up.

Evernote Due Dates

Search Reference Code 47ER92

Apr 5, 2010 - Phil Libin: "All notes will get a "due date" field in the next couple of versions."

Apr 9, 2010 - Dave Engberg: "We plan to add the ability to specify a due date for a note, to sort the note list by due dates, and to be able to search for notes within a range of due dates."

Sep 7, 2010 - Dave Engberg: "We are adding support for a 'Due Date' field on each note, which you could set to an appropriate date."

Jan 27, 2011 - Dave Engberg: "We're planning to replace the name of the "subject date" field (which was confusing for most new users) with "due date" instead."

Feb 15, 2011 - Phil Libin: Due Dates are "Definitely coming soon" via Twitter

Sep 29, 2011 - Phil Dean: Thanks for the reminder [Due Date]. I have made a note to bring this up as a gentle reminder to the team on Monday. No promises mind you

Nov 15, 2011 - Phil Constantinou: I promise good stuff is happening with Due dates and to dos. It has been too long but hopefully it'll be worth it.

[jefito 5,589]

Sorry, but I just don't see meta-data being added to tags. They're really just labels, lightweight, and have no intrinsic meaning. If you want something "meta" to govern multi-note scenarios, then the master note concept as described, with note links, is a good one. Tag it with "Acme" and "Master", plus whatever else applies. The "Acme" tag ties together all of the related notes; note links in the master note allow you to organize your associated notes; an ontline would work, I would think. Timelines can be accommodated with master notes (though are not automatic).

[Metrodon 2,184]

JB.. I'm getting more than a little worried about you and that Due Date....

[jbenson2 2,147]

JB.. I'm getting more than a little worried about you and that Due Date....

Yup, whenever I see an opportunity to flog the Due Date puppy, I will.

But...

Just as Obama focuses like a laser beam on getting new jobs.

I focus like a laser beam on getting the Due Date column.

We've both failed.

[Metrodon 2,184]

SO FAR!!!!

[jbenson2 2,147]

SO FAR!!!!

Good point.

President Obama just might get the economy rolling again.

[gazumped 11,652]

Thanks for all the feedback guys (and BnF). Back to the drawing board for a while I guess. There's some guy called Obama working there at the moment...