(Archived) Charging for offline storage is just plain wrong

[ja2038 1]

Hi Evernote,

I am grossly offended that you charge for offline storage on Android.

I entered the data on Android, and then you whisk the data away and charge me $45 per year to access it locally.

Is it my data or yours?

It's one thing to charge for your other premium features, bandwidth, storage, faster processing times, other features. But it's outrageous to charge me for access to my own data. And I'll go so far to say it's unethical as well.

I can only hope it's a lousy marketing strategy and your competitors will take advantage of it.

I tried out SpringPad a few months ago, and it was very buggy. Time to try again.

I tried out Catch Notes and it is not nearly as full featured, but my data is my data, and offline access to my data is a huge value over Evernote 2.0 Android.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

Is it my data or yours?

Is it being stored on your servers or theirs?

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=19427&p=80583&hilit=reminder+money#p80583

[jefito 5,589]

You can still access your data for free, any time you want, using any of a number of methods. For example, using the Windows or Mac clients, you can maintain a local copy of your data. The fact that the mobile clients use a different model than the desktop clients doesn't mean that your data is not your data, and that you can't get access to it.

~Jeff

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

But it's outrageous to charge me for access to my own data. And I'll go so far to say it's unethical as well.

Additionally, if Android works like the iDevices, you can access your data as long as you have an internet connection. The premium account allows you to store that data on your device.

It's hardly unethical to charge someone for using (voluntarily, I might add) a product one has spent a lot of time & money creating and continues to spend a lot of time & money maintaining & adding new features.

[jschnall 0]

When you create a note on the 2.x client, it is not whisked away to the cloud and made locally inaccessible. A copy is first stored on the device (which you can access without a data connection). The note is then immediately synced to your Evernote account, so you may access it from wherever you wish. Notes created on other devices are retrieved by the Android client on demand, and cached so that they may also be viewed offline.

Now suppose that you modify a note on the windows or the web, which you previously viewed on android. Sync the android client, and view the note again. The app will realize that the local copy of the note is no longer up to date and remove it. If a network connection is available, an up to date copy of the note will be downloaded immediately. So unless you modify a particular note somewhere else then sync the android client, manually clear the cache through settings, or become seriously low on space on your SDCard, that note will be available offline

The advantage to having a premium account is that notes will be periodically updated with whatever changes have happened in the cloud. This means, notes that have not been recently viewed will still be available offline, and will load more quickly because an updated copy will not have to be downloaded.

[qot 23]

I think this might be the weirdest complaint I've seen on these forums.

[mkayi 5]

it sounds strangely familiar, though, from the comments in the market. Every once in an all too short while someone comes along and complains about data being transferred to "the internets". Why do you do that? That is so evil/clumsy/stupid/bad business practice...

I wish, people would just for once do a minimal search for the products they are about to use, get the idea and make informed statements.

and offline access to my data is a huge value over Evernote 2.0

Ironically, especially with the mobile apps, a centralized, always in sync, accessible everywhere, from a multitude of devices, is one the major USPs and strongest pros of Evernote.

[Vance 38]

Suffice it to say that I disagree with the OP entirely. Offline storage IS a hugely important feature, but not some type of legal "right". It is a feature, like all the other features, and it is Evernote's prerogative to pick and choose which of those features it will include for free and which it will make a premium feature. Now, can they make mistakes, from a marketing perspective, about which should be which? Sure. But I don't think they have in this case, and if they did, that would just be bad business, not some type of violation of property rights.

[engberg 89]

We try to offer a very rich set of functionality for Free users, which you can use for years without paying us a nickel. But we are a business with employees who like to eat food and pay rent, so we must choose some set of features and capabilities that are reserved for paying customers to encourage some people (approximately 5% of all active users) to cover the cost of writing the software and running the servers.

Adding full offline synchronization to low-powered mobile phones takes many months of engineering to build and tune, so we've put that into the "pay" bucket instead of other options (e.g. charge everyone for the Android client).

[DenverRalphy 0]

Adding full offline synchronization to low-powered mobile phones takes many months of engineering to build and tune, so we've put that into the "pay" bucket instead of other options (e.g. charge everyone for the Android client).

While I will not for a moment support the OP's attitude in the thread... I have to say... this statement is 100% false. Two other Cloud based note services offer this for free, and as well does a very reputable job of it. Evernote carries the advantage of being one of the first to be successful in the area of cloud based note taking, and therefore has a lot of support... however; SpringPad and Catchnotes (formerly Snaptic) provide this specific service in a very reputable manner.

More accurately what you should say is... Under Evernote's current design, it is not currently feasible. Evernote really needs to re-tool the concept, as SpringPad is rapidly up-and-coming and ready to overcome.

As it stands now... SpringPad is offering much of what the consumer-base is asking for feature-wise. Their only disadvantage is the UI (which is rapidly improving).

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

Adding full offline synchronization to low-powered mobile phones takes many months of engineering to build and tune, so we've put that into the "pay" bucket instead of other options (e.g. charge everyone for the Android client).

While I will not for a moment support the OP's attitude in the thread... I have to say... this statement is 100% false.

So...you are saying adding full offline synchronization to low-powered mobile phones does not take many months of engineering to build and tune? If so, I rather doubt that, since most (IME) projects of any size take at least a few months (minimally) to outline, build & test. And the examples you provided do not dispute Dave's statement. Instead, they simply provide another company's choice as to what they are willing to give away for free.

[engberg 89]

Ok, thanks for the feedback. We'd prefer not to support Evernote through advertisements and paid promotions (like other services), but rather ask users to pay for "advanced" features directly. But we can certainly appreciate that some users might prefer pure ad-driven business models.

[ja2038 1]

Is it my data or yours?

Is it being stored on your servers or theirs?

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=19427&p=80583&hilit=reminder+money#p80583

When you type your email at google/yahoo/... is that your email or their's?

My data should be mine, not evernotes. I should be able to back it up, delete it, whatever. It's my data.

Just because it's on their servers is completely besides the point.

When you park at work, whose car is it?

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

When you type your email at google/yahoo/... is that your email or their's?

It's Google & Yahoo's choice to provide that service for free. It's not a God given right.

My data should be mine, not evernotes. I should be able to back it up, delete it, whatever. It's my data.

Just because it's on their servers is completely besides the point.

There's no disputing that. But if you voluntarily choose to use Evernote as a note system, you have to live by their rules. It's their playpen. If you don't want to, feel free to use another app.

When you park at work, whose car is it?

I'm not even sure how that's supposed to relate.

[ja2038 1]

But it's outrageous to charge me for access to my own data. And I'll go so far to say it's unethical as well.

Additionally, if Android works like the iDevices, you can access your data as long as you have an internet connection. The premium account allows you to store that data on your device.

It's hardly unethical to charge someone for using (voluntarily, I might add) a product one has spent a lot of time & money creating and continues to spend a lot of time & money maintaining & adding new features.

If I wanted an iDevice, guess what I would have bought? If I wanted an iTunes sync cord device, guess what I would have bought?

I bought a cloud syncing device.

[Vance 38]

The iPhone and iPod Touch are also cloud syncing devices for Evernote purposes (as well as most other purposes).

The point was that this feature (the ability to access notes offline, as well as making it a premium feature) was already present in the iPhone version, so they just brought it up to speed with that platform.

The ultimate point raised by many of us is that this is a "Freemium" product, meaning they pick and choose those features which they believe constitute "beyond basic" value-adds, worth upgrading to premium for. I think the test would be "is the product useful and valuable without this features, so that those who don't upgraded still have a good experience?" If so, then the feature is one they can charge extra for. It is non-essential. And, they have determined that off-line access fits that description. That's all. You can agree or disagree with that choice (and I could respect anyone who insists that the product is just not workable for them without offline storage, due to very poor cell coverage, etc), but it is silly to say that it is "just plain wrong".

[ja2038 1]

When you create a note on the 2.x client, it is not whisked away to the cloud and made locally inaccessible. A copy is first stored on the device (which you can access without a data connection). The note is then immediately synced to your Evernote account, so you may access it from wherever you wish. Notes created on other devices are retrieved by the Android client on demand, and cached so that they may also be viewed offline.

Now suppose that you modify a note on the windows or the web, which you previously viewed on android. Sync the android client, and view the note again. The app will realize that the local copy of the note is no longer up to date and remove it. If a network connection is available, an up to date copy of the note will be downloaded immediately. So unless you modify a particular note somewhere else then sync the android client, manually clear the cache through settings, or become seriously low on space on your SDCard, that note will be available offline

The advantage to having a premium account is that notes will be periodically updated with whatever changes have happened in the cloud. This means, notes that have not been recently viewed will still be available offline, and will load more quickly because an updated copy will not have to be downloaded.

As an aside, it's hard to know from the forum who is an Evernote Employee or not.

I accept your explanation of the feature here, and I believe you are asking me to pay for this feature twice, at a time when most of the net says this feature should be free.

If I have a free account and download my private-islands-I-own notebook down, does the bandwidth for that count against my monthly free allocation? If I have a premium account does transferring that notebook count against premium monthly bandwidth allocations? If so, why would you charge me additionally for the offline storage feature?

Because the way I see it as a random user, it's my data and you should make it available. Doing so isn't a nice thing, doing so is a must thing just for you to compete. As your announcement states: offline notebooks is your most requested feature.

I don't need the other premium features and so the $45 per year charge just for offline storage is much too high.

Google / Dropbox and others make me pay for the amount of storage after giving me some amount of free storage. But they don't make me pay for the excess bandwidth to move the data back and forth.

AT&T / Tmo / ... already make me pay for bandwidth and excess bandwidth.

But you folks want me to pay for bandwidth AND storage. And you set a pretty pricey amount on that as well. Who else does that?

When I hear your other employees suggesting we have to pay for feature development/maintenance/testing, I do sympathize. Of course we do. But it's mostly beside the point, especially because you are charging a monthly/yearly subscription fee for that new feature and not charging a one time fee. So your challenge is finding a way to make us pay in a way that makes your offering attractive in the market place.

I know I need and want offline storage, and there are some very nice alternatives that are not $45 per year, or anywhere close to that.

I would not mind an ad based evernote. I would pay $.99 - $19.00 for an incredibly great evernote 2.0 premium app. I ain't paying $5 per month or $45 per year for that.

As others say it's a free market and I can walk away. And that's fine.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

As an aside, it's hard to know from the forum who is an Evernote Employee or not.

I guess the red letters & "Evernote Employee" escaped your attention.

And there's really nothing more to discuss here.

[jefito 5,589]

I accept your explanation of the feature here, and I believe you are asking me to pay for this feature twice, at a time when most of the net says this feature should be free.

I don't think that that's the case.

If I have a free account and down load my private-islands-I-own notebook down, does the bandwidth for that count against my monthly free allocation?

No.

If I have a premium account does transferring that notebook count against premium monthly bandwidth allocations? If so, why would you charge me additionally for the offline storage feature?

No.

Because the way I see it as a random user, it's my data and you should make it available.

And you can have it, easily, as discussed.

I don't need the other premium features and so the $45 per year charge just for offline storage is much too high.

So use the free one, as discussed.

But you folks want me to pay for bandwidth AND storage.

No, I don't believe that they do.

As others say it's a free market and I can walk away. And that's fine.

That much is true, but don't do so until you get all of the facts.

Jeff

[Vance 38]

Yes, you seem to be missing the entire point of free v. paid features (and, btw, the only EN employees who has posted on this thread is Dave and jschnall, the rest of us are just customers like you).

Evernote gives you a metric ton of features and ways of storing and accessing your stuff for no cost whatsoever. You are using THEIR servers and bandwidth at no cost to you. And, if you choose to keep it that way, you will have all of these features, and all of that access without ever paying EN a dime. Go for it. I do that with Dropbox, and I feel no guilt over it. If they charged customers based on what it cost them for that customer to use the service, it would never work. They have to let a lot of people burden their system for free to make their business model work.

EN pays for the free users by choosing additional features which some will find compelling enough to pay for. So, those "pay" features HAVE to be popular ones that people really like, but not ESSENTIAL ones that people need to use the service effectively. These features have to be incredibly convenient to entice people to upgrade to premium, obviously. Here is the point: they are not charging extra for it because it *costs* them extra. They are charging extra for it because it is the TYPE of feature which fits that "compellingly useful, but not essential" description.

And the fact that 95% of five million people use the service without offline storage proves that it is definitely NOT essential. The fact that I am willing to pay EN for primarily that one feature proves that it IS compelling.

So, ipso facto, they chose well.

[engberg 89]

As an aside, it's hard to know from the forum who is an Evernote Employee or not.

Evernote Employees have red names, and it says "Evernote Employee" on the right side.

(Since this was Joel Schnall's first post, his name wasn't red when he first posted this, but I corrected that oversight shortly afterwards. Welcome, Joel!)

[edubb256 5]

I have the same gripe as OP about another product ... hard drives. I went to buy a bigger the hard drive for my computer and they want to charge me for it. It's just plain wrong. I'm going to be storing to MY data on the drive, and Western Digital wants to charge me a hard drive. It's my data, why should I have to pay to store it. It's not just wrong, it's unethical. Now that I think about it, the whole computer should be free...as long as I only put my data on it.

E

[amer 19]

Just my 0.00001 cent, I hate ads, especially in apps I use all the time. I am a premium user because I can't stand seeing ads in EN Windows app, and certainly would not like seeing them in the Android client. And I fell good about paying a reasonable price to support a product I extensively use. Guess I am a type of customer EN's business model targets

[engberg 89]

Thanks, amer!

[JamesCE 5]

well i really want offline sync capabilities... i will continue to search the forums to find more info.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

well i really want offline sync capabilities... i will continue to search the forums to find more info.

I don't know what you consider "offline sync capabilities". If you have a premium account, you can select which notebooks should be sync'd locally to your device so you can access the notes when you don't have an internet connection. (AKA "offline notebooks".) The sync'ing must be done when you have an internet connection. But unless you are online (have an internet connection), you can't sync, regardless if you're free or premium.

[JamesCE 5]

well i really want offline sync capabilities... i will continue to search the forums to find more info.

I don't know what you consider "offline sync capabilities". If you have a premium account, you can select which notebooks should be sync'd locally to your device so you can access the notes when you don't have an internet connection. (AKA "offline notebooks".) The sync'ing must be done when you have an internet connection. But unless you are online (have an internet connection), you can't sync, regardless if you're free or premium.

I guess I have files that I don't want in the "cloud" but I want to be local on the computer. However, when I do go to meetings I want to be able to sync the information locally and any changes i make on my droid or tablet will be synced again to my local files.

[ozzy6900 0]

I deal with servers every day and let me tell you, it is expensive and time consuming to set up, maintain and host. That said, when you decide to "rent" space on a server, you must conform to the rules and to the limitations. If you do not want to pay for data storage, you can go elsewhere as there are many sites out there that you can choose from. Finally, let me ask you this question. Who twisted your arm to put your data on someone else's server? If you do not like the rules or the fact that you must pay, go find another place or better yet, reach into your pocket and buy, set up and maintain your own servers! Maybe then you will find that it is not as easy as it sounds.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

I guess I have files that I don't want in the "cloud" but I want to be local on the computer. However, when I do go to meetings I want to be able to sync the information locally and any changes i make on my droid or tablet will be synced again to my local files.

EN will probably never have a computer/device to computer/device sync (IE bypassing "cloud"). There are probablly some apps that do that but I doubt there are many of those still out there. That used to be state of the art back in the day of PDAs when you either cable sync'd or were able to use your WIFI network. But these days, people don't want to be limited to cable/wifi sync. And if it's sensitive data, you encrypt it before putting it in the cloud.

[garychenc00l 13]

OP may still not understand how this whole thing works, nor the legal aspects.

Read the terms of use/conditions to understand more.

Imo, free has a ton of features already, and I don't need premium any time soon.

Only if the storage can stack per month...

Then I wouldn't frantically upload stuff

[dbareis 14]

Just going to add my 2 cents worth.

It would be nice if there were some steps between the "free" and "very expensive" versions. I'd be happy to pay for offline notebooks, just not anywhere near $49 per year. There must be a lot of people put off by the high cost would would pay a lot less to only add sync to offline storage. I believe the iPhone version at least allows you to do this for specific notes via favorites but the Android version doesn't :-(

Thanks

Dennis

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

Just going to add my 2 cents worth.

It would be nice if there were some steps between the "free" and "very expensive" versions. I'd be happy to pay for offline notebooks, just not anywhere near $49 per year. There must be a lot of people put off by the high cost would would pay a lot less to only add sync to offline storage. I believe the iPhone version at least allows you to do this for specific notes via favorites but the Android version doesn't :-(

Thanks

Dennis

This sounds like a reasonable request to me, but Evernote staff have recently said they considered and rejected the idea. I think it is cool that they are listening, even if they end up disagreeing.

I do not know all of the reasoning, but I imagine this would hurt their bottom line, and they might find more money lost from premium users dropping to a lower service tier, than revenue generated by users upgrading to an offline service plan. Ultimately, I want Evernote to stick around, so if this is the business model they think is best for the company, then I'll support it.

By the way, premium costs 45 per year, not 49.

[jefito 5,589]

It would be nice if there were some steps between the "free" and "very expensive" versions. I'd be happy to pay for offline notebooks, just not anywhere near $49 per year. There must be a lot of people put off by the high cost would would pay a lot less to only add sync to offline storage. I believe the iPhone version at least allows you to do this for specific notes via favorites but the Android version doesn't :-(

Favorites on the iPhone are an early experiment; Evernote has since changed their strategy and have said that they won't be doing Favorites on other devices. Offline notebooks is the way forward for other mobile platforms, including all of the other iDevices and Androids as well.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

And while I realize everything is relative, if EN is something you rely heavily upon, $45/year hardly qualifies as "very expensive". .

[LaLaGoldfish 0]

I just downloaded EverNote. Seriously, like 30 minutes ago. I was confused about an advertised feature, so I came to the forum. This was the first post I happened to read. And the animosity is the reason I will be deleting the app. And the account. As soon as I can figure out how to do it.

This "BurgerNFries" person is aggressive, at best. How a company could allow someone to say "leave if you don't like it" is beyond me. But since no one employed by EN disputed her post, I can only assume it is because they agree with her. Now *that* is a horrible business model. Also not a good way to win friends or influence people. Certainly not a good way to make money. Without customers, no business model will work. It doesn't matter how many free or pay services you provide, allowing someone to offend possible customers is abhorrent, no matter how much they "love" your product.

And with that, I'll take her advice. And leave. Because I don't like the tone of the board or the obvious lack of customer service. And before you say I'm not a customer because I didn't pay, remember that I had the potential.

*If* this ever gets posted, I'm just glad I won't be around to be flamed by BurgerNFries.

And as I go back to SpringPad, I wonder how many other people may have left without letting you know. Maybe you should, too. Or maybe you really don't care. Either way, I've let you know, and my review on the marketplace will let everyone else know, as well.

[dbareis 14]

And while I realize everything is relative, if EN is something you rely heavily upon, $45/year hardly qualifies as "very expensive". .

Like you say its relative but this product costs more than any competitor I'm aware of and I don't want/need all the features of the premium yet I'm forced to pay for them.

As it is a really good product (in general) I will stick with it a bit longer (at least until OneNote has a decent Android app anyway), $45/year I'd probably be happy to pay as a family licence.

[jefito 5,589]

This "BurgerNFries" person is aggressive, at best. How a company could allow someone to say "leave if you don't like it" is beyond me. But since no one employed by EN disputed her post, I can only assume it is because they agree with her. Now *that* is a horrible business model.

But that's the basic proposition that you get with any software/hardware/anything; it's pretty much "take it or leave it", when it all comes down to the bottom line. What else could anyone say, anyways? Since Evernote offers no other options, why sugarcoat the message? I call it good advice, myself.

Also not a good way to win friends or influence people. Certainly not a good way to make money. Without customers, no business model will work. It doesn't matter how many free or pay services you provide, allowing someone to offend possible customers is abhorrent, no matter how much they "love" your product.

BurgersNFries has helped a great number of folks use Evernote better. Period. And if you'd bothered to read the rest of the thread, you'd see that she's offered other information in this thread that some might call useful. She'd probably help you, too, if you had an actual problem with the product.

And with that, I'll take her advice. And leave. Because I don't like the tone of the board or the obvious lack of customer service. And before you say I'm not a customer because I didn't pay, remember that I had the potential.

This is not a customer service forum, this is a user forum; the employees do chime in sometimes, but the rest of us are all users, including the evangelists. And by the way, you're a customer even if you're using the free version -- you still get access to the customer support services,

*If* this ever gets posted, I'm just glad I won't be around to be flamed by BurgerNFries.

Why would Evernote censor your opinion (even if you're not interested in sticking around to defend it)?

And as I go back to SpringPad, I wonder how many other people may have left without letting you know. Maybe you should, too. Or maybe you really don't care. Either way, I've let you know, and my review on the marketplace will let everyone else know, as well.

If SpringPad works for you, then great. That's as it should be: You deserve to have software that does what you need. Personally, if that's Evernote, or SpringPad, or whatever, I don't care. Evernote's capabilities work for me, and they work for a lot for other people, too.

[jefito 5,589]

Like you say its relative but this product costs more than any competitor I'm aware of and I don't want/need all the features of the premium yet I'm forced to pay for them.

Nobody is forcing you to pay for anything. You can use the free version for free. If you want to use Evernote services that Evernote has deemed as "premium", then you can choose to pay for them. But that's really, really your choice.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I just downloaded EverNote. Seriously, like 30 minutes ago. I was confused about an advertised feature, so I came to the forum. This was the first post I happened to read. And the animosity is the reason I will be deleting the app. And the account. As soon as I can figure out how to do it.

This "BurgerNFries" person is aggressive, at best. How a company could allow someone to say "leave if you don't like it" is beyond me. But since no one employed by EN disputed her post, I can only assume it is because they agree with her. Now *that* is a horrible business model. Also not a good way to win friends or influence people. Certainly not a good way to make money. Without customers, no business model will work. It doesn't matter how many free or pay services you provide, allowing someone to offend possible customers is abhorrent, no matter how much they "love" your product. 

And with that, I'll take her advice. And leave. Because I don't like the tone of the board or the obvious lack of customer service. And before you say I'm not a customer because I didn't pay, remember that I had the potential.

*If* this ever gets posted, I'm just glad I won't be around to be flamed by BurgerNFries.

And as I go back to SpringPad, I wonder how many other people may have left without letting you know. Maybe you should, too. Or maybe you really don't care. Either way, I've let you know, and my review on the marketplace will let everyone else know, as well.

Hi. Welcome to the forums! 

I'd like to help out with the advertised feature you had questions about, so please feel free to start a thread on the topic, or contact me directly.

If you find the forums to be hostile, the good news is that you don't have to read the forums to use the app! As for deleting it, the process is fairly simple. You un-install it just as you would any application. However, if you have questions, feel free to ask.

As for customer service, I recommend contacting them (see my signature) before making any judgments about it. In my experience, they are quite helpful. If you have an issue with someone on the forums and you raise it (there is a button to report people) then the staff will see it, but until that happens, I wouldn't expect Evernote staff to intervene. And, in this case, I would say BNF wasn't out of bounds in how she expressed herself. 

As for SpringPad, I hope that you enjoy the product. It has some nice features, and is a worthy competitotr. I wouldn't put it in the same league as Evernote, but if it meets your needs, then that is great!

[steves999 1]

All I have to say to the op is wow! This is the best free cloud note app available.

If you need more than Evernote offers for for free then pay up or move on, you get what you pay for.

I'd like to know who offers a more powerfull, with more storage per $ than evernote.

I might move on myself. I've been using evernote for years on multiple platforms and haven't

found anything better yet.

Also new to the forums thanks for providing the info I needed.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

All I have to say to the op is wow! This is the best free cloud note app available.

If you need more than Evernote offers for for free then pay up or move on, you get what you pay for.

I'd like to know who offers a more powerfull, with more storage per $ than evernote.

I might move on myself. I've been using evernote for years on multiple platforms and haven't

found anything better yet.

Also new to the forums thanks for providing the info I needed.

Hi. Welcome to the forums!

I agree that the free version gives you a lot. Even before I upgraded, it had become more integrated into my life than any other application. I know that any amount of money is difficult to part with, especially in these difficult economic conditions, but Evenote is one of the few services that I feel is well worth it.

[C6REW 416]

Hi All,

Got a bit bored of reading this thread which feels like it was started by a troll I'm afraid.

As to this statement:

When you park at work, whose car is it?

Your car, but you will normally pay for parking. There is a chance that you might get free parking at work, but technically this should be seen as a benefit in kind and therefore you will still be taxed.

But when you park in a town, of course you pay to park.

So using your odd analogy the data belongs to you, but your are 'parking' it on Evernotes servers so you would expect to pay for that service. Simples!

Best regards

Chris

[enonod 0]

I must have missed something here... or I am thick.

The title is 'offline storage' but the comments are about online storage.

Surely the issue is not whether or not one pays for online storage, after all why shouldn't you, you are using a facility.

The point I believe is missed is that if one does not require cloud storage and only has a single device to their name (Android tablet say) then it would be reasonable to expect to have your own data stored on your own device. Cloud storage is for those that have two or more devices and wish to sync them.

I have, until now, never come across a program that does not store the data on the device upon which it is installed.

The original comment "whisked away..." is exactly what is happening because it is not stored locally.

The solution surely is a small charge for the program license and no cloud access for those that prefer to have their data with the device.

If the data is stored in a cache, there should be a way to back that up locally.

A point comes to mind.

Who can be sure in these days when the bank tell you that a credit card is safe and cloud providers tell you your data is safe, that it really is?

Who can be sure beyond doubt that their password is not sent with the data? Do you feel safe because somebody told you it was OK?

If the data is encrypted on your system before it leaves for the cloud in the sky, who can be sure that the key to that has not also been 'clouded'?

Perhaps somebody can tell me I am 100% wrong?

The service provided here is one that some do not want but are forced into buying. If the service was not needed then there would be no cost or 'engineering' to provide it!

Likewise if some do need it, then they are the ones that should pay!

Of course, if data was stored locally on the device then few would need to store in the clouds. We never used to before the invention of this unneeded service which was made needed by refusing to store data locally.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I must have missed something here... or I am thick.

The title is 'offline storage' but the comments are about online storage.

Surely the issue is not whether or not one pays for online storage, after all why shouldn't you, you are using a facility.

The point I believe is missed is that if one does not require cloud storage and only has a single device to their name (Android tablet say) then it would be reasonable to expect to have your own data stored on your own device. Cloud storage is for those that have two or more devices and wish to sync them.

I have, until now, never come across a program that does not store the data on the device upon which it is installed.

The original comment "whisked away..." is exactly what is happening because it is not stored locally.

The solution surely is a small charge for the program license and no cloud access for those that prefer to have their data with the device.

If the data is stored in a cache, there should be a way to back that up locally.

A point comes to mind.

Who can be sure in these days when the bank tell you that a credit card is safe and cloud providers tell you your data is safe, that it really is?

Who can be sure beyond doubt that their password is not sent with the data? Do you feel safe because somebody told you it was OK?

If the data is encrypted on your system before it leaves for the cloud in the sky, who can be sure that the key to that has not also been 'clouded'?

Perhaps somebody can tell me I am 100% wrong?

The service provided here is one that some do not want but are forced into buying. If the service was not needed then there would be no cost or 'engineering' to provide it!

Likewise if some do need it, then they are the ones that should pay!

Of course, if data was stored locally on the device then few would need to store in the clouds. We never used to before the invention of this unneeded service which was made needed by refusing to store data locally.

Hi. Welcome to the forums. You are correct. It is a unique business model that reflects how central the cloud is to Evernote's service. If you don't want to use the cloud then I am afraid Evernote is probably not a great fit for you. Or, to put it another way, you won't be able to benefit much from what they offer. It would be like buying the space shuttle to drive to work. Nothing wrong with the space shuttle, but if you don't want to go into space, then there isn't much point in having it.

As for your data's integrity, Evernote takes this very seriously, and their model very clearly puts the data in your hands IF you have Premium or IF you have a desktop. If you decide to stick with the Free mode and will not use a desktop, then you may be better off with something else. I would recommend reconsidering this, though, because I think it is rather unsafe not to be backing up your Android device somewhere (a computer or the cloud).

Anyhow, I can see your point about the offline notes, but this is the business model Evernote has chosen.

[Sad to go 0]

I will keep looking for another solution too, more or less based on this discussion. Offline accessibility is a total deal breaker for me. In the long run if I would have chosen evernote for my really modest text note keeping needs, I might or might not have turned into a paying customer.

( More than likely I have to say -- I probably would have just freeloaded forever. )

good luck to the company, all the fine evangelists here at the evernote forum and bon voyage,

mr. x

[marhensa 0]

um...

maybe my suggestion is stupid.

 

how about offline notebook which cant be synced. just offline.

 

you guys doesnt have to worry about server maintaining or anything.

and we stiil can use the best of evernote minus the sync capabilties.

ads is welcome..

 

how?

[jefito 5,589]

how about offline notebook which cant be synced. just offline.

As has been noted before, this capability exists for the desktop Evernote clients -- they're called "local notebooks", and they are not synced to the Evernote servers. This functionality is not available for the mobile clients . The likely reason is that the desktop clients maintain a note database that is somewhat permanent; the deal with mobile clients is (or used to be) that permanent storage is limited not guaranteed to exist, so if you lose your notes on your device, they're gone forever. That assumption may be outdated at this point.

[marhensa 0]

how about offline notebook which cant be synced. just offline.

As has been noted before, this capability exists for the desktop Evernote clients -- they're called "local notebooks", and they are not synced to the Evernote servers. This functionality is not available for the mobile clients . The likely reason is that the desktop clients maintain a note database that is somewhat permanent; the deal with mobile clients is (or used to be) that permanent storage is limited not guaranteed to exist, so if you lose your notes on your device, they're gone forever. That assumption may be outdated at this point.

hmm.. i see.

but how about we still can make a backup of local notebook on mobile version?

so it wont gone forever when we reset our phone or simply uninstall app.

local notebook is necessary for some people which has wonky internet connection to rely on..

[jefito 5,589]

but how about we still can make a backup of local notebook on mobile version?

so it wont gone forever when we reset our phone or simply uninstall app.

local notebook is necessary for some people which has wonky internet connection to rely on..

If there were local notebooks (but there aren't), then, as with the current system of cached notes, they would most likely be in the file system. Backup would be possible. Whether it would be possible/easy to move them to a different phone is another matter, though I think that in their current form, cached notes are importable into a desktop version of Evernote.